Majority of students are Overseas

I think the main threat of salary erosion for actuaries is not the inflow of international actuaries. The impact of this is not as negative as some of us think.

We should be more worried about the disappearing of DB pensions and withprofit funds. The financial landscape is changing and actuaries needs to adapt. This is why you can't afford the mentality of let's protect what we have. We need to increase demand rather than limiting supply i.e. be more predatory.

 

scarlets, I am a non-EU resident but managing currently a couple of EU countries for actuarial/ Solvency 2 topics. But, what does it tell you? Just admit that Faculty & Institute is increasingly becoming an international body, and FIA/FFA qualification tends to be as widely recognized as say ACCA or CFA, which is a positive turn both for UK and non-UK members. The salary levels worldwide will even out eventually, as it was the case with ACCA/CFA.

Btw my income has not doubled, I said that my underlying earnings are doubling, the main effect being that the UK employer is prepared to pay for the exam cost and study materials - which took a large share of my budget before. Also, the life in London is cheaper.

And, you cannot say that you will be paid below the market rates. What you are paid by the free market is exactly the market rate for you, by definition. And I cannot understand why are you that worried - I have never seen in my life that a good actuary is replaced with a bad actuary just because the latter is cheaper. You are a good actuary, aren't you?

 

If you don't stop the wage erosion due to unnecessary immigration then you will not attract the better calibre people to the profession who have the ability to increase demand for our skills. Hence another reason why it's irresponsible to have actuary on the shortage list.

 

"I think the main threat of salary erosion for actuaries is not the inflow of international actuaries. The impact of this is not as negative as some of us think."

We're on the list now, watch and weep.

 

I have never seen in my life that a good actuary is replaced with a bad actuary just because the latter is cheaper.

Spot on. You should be thinking about how you add value to your company. If you're not, why not?

 

Let's pretend lang is as valuable as 2-3 non EU actuaries everyone.

 

Personally, I have never seen a situation where a "third world actuary" is extremely competative on the UK job market, moves to the UK (maybe even to London) and is willing to work for a "third world salary".....

I don't think it would be even possible.

 

Only 50 more posts until this thread tuns.

* Sits back, adds value by stirring his fifth cup of tea of the day *

 

"I don't think it would be even possible."

Couldn't pay anyone less than min wage obviously. But they can & do & increasingly will import from non-EU and pay at a huge discount to current market rates. And people will do it, I explained earlier why.

 

Before I go out and spaff my massive salary on champagne in the West End, I'm just going to scan my floor for overseas (or "third world" as you call them) colleagues. Within my line of sight:

India x 2, Hungary, Singapore, South Korea, France x 2, Australia, South Africa

Evidence-based forum posting.

** End of thread **

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

 

Oxy, we don't pay you 25p a day to mess around posting YouTube links.

Now get back to work - there's a good chap.

 

"India x 2, Hungary, Singapore, South Korea, France x 2, Australia, South Africa"

No British, why?

 

Because, as they said, they were only counting the people from overseas??

 

Code:

Sub HelpScarlets()
    Do While True
        Select Case Int(4 * Rnd)
            Case 0
                Debug.Print "They took our job!"
            Case 1
                Debug.Print "DEY DUK UR? DEEEERRBB!"
            Case 2
                Debug.Print "durr? cah dtuur!"
            Case 3
                Debug.Print "DAY? TUK MAH JAWB"
        End Select
    Loop
End Sub

 

Dear Lord

Please help me resist posting this afternoon. I have promised Mrs Langbourne I will clean the house and I mustn't be distracted.

Amen

 

my, how times have changed

 

Tell me about it...

I long for the days when Mrs L would have provided 3 cooked meals a day and done all the cleaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB5TOsS5EyI&feature=related

 

Scarlets, the country I'm born has made me embrace the idea of free market & liberal outlook, because every day I wake up, I see the pitfalls of restrictions and quotas and how inefficient it makes the functioning of the whole system in India.

I've been rejected admission for my undergraduate studies in the best college in my state because I wasn't "Christian" in favour of guys who've scored a good 20% less than me. In other decent places, I couldn't find an admission in morning (where the quality of teaching is a lot better) college because of the restrictions placed on "forward castes" and the imposition of "caste" based quotas. This in spite of being in the top 0.25 percentile nationwide at school level. I refused to pay capitation money to be admitted into any course, and hence had to settle for a pretty average college attending evening classes where I ended up wasting three years of my life before deciding actuarial is the way ahead.

I don't have to tell you guys how bad the education system is in India, and the reason is simple ---> restrictions that instill complacency. As someone pointed out earlier, if there is a restriction on import of actuaries and the actuarial students into Eu, you will benefit, but the profession will eventually become like the Indian education system. If someone is willing to do your work for less pay, it simply means you're over paid.

 

Personally, I don't know anyone from non-EU country who would do UK exams and sell himself/ herself at a huge discount to the UK rates....

In fact, UK qualified actuaries from outside EU prefer not coming to the UK if they are offered a smaller salary just because they do not have a UK experience. There are other markets. If you are good and competative, you can work in Switzerland, USA, Canda, Australia, Germany, France etc etc....why come to the UK for a HUGE DISCOUNT?

 

This is exactly what I've been saying. Oh well. Back to my third world.