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Work based skills

Discussion in 'General study / exams' started by Calum, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Calum

    Calum Senior Member

    I'm curious to hear some discussion on this topic. Anecdotally, it seems to me that many people are completing these logs on or near qualification and that it can be difficult to carve out supervisor time to keep logs up to date as you go along.

    I find myself well behind where I should be in terms of completion, for one. I find myself wondering how I should go about completion for past periods. After all, thedetails of projects are forgotten, lessons learnt have been internalised, managers have moved on. It seems to me to be a bit cheeky to ask a supervisor to sign off something that happened before they even met me!
  2. td290

    td290 Ton up Member

    I can empathise with a lot of this, although since I have been with the same employer for several years there isn't quite the same issue of no longer having access to my supervisors from times gone by.

    My experience is that completing logs retrospectively is not all that hard. The guide to work-based skills lists the kind of thing that it expects to see under the seven "dimensions." You can use this as a prompt sheet. If you can dig out any employee performance reviews from the period in question then this may help too. Have a look at the amount of space you have to write in on the forms. It's not that much really. Besides, you're told you don't need to cover all the dimensions on all the logs. You're not really being asked to recant details of projects. Just briefly what they were and what skills did they give you experience of.

    In terms of getting supervisor's time, like so many things, it helps if you make it easy for them to do the favour you're asking of them. You could even offer to draft their bit for them. They can of course edit it until it reflects their perception of reality and they're not obliged to sign anything they don't agree with so it's all above board.

    In my experience, once you settle down to the task it all flows fairly quickly. Have fun!
  3. cjno1

    cjno1 Ton up Member

    I submitted my work based skills over the summer, completely echo td290's comments.

    My plan was just to keep on top of the essays, so I made sure I was doing 2 essays every 6 months (to hit the requirement of 12 by the end of 3 years). I also kept a note on a word document of all the projects I was involved in as I went along.

    Then at the end of my three years I drafted all of my learning logs at once (including the supervisor sections) then sent it all to my supervisor. We had a 2 hour meeting to review everything then she signed it all off and I sent it to the profession.

    Just make sure you are doing something to keep a note of what you are up to as you go along, otherwise it can be very difficult trying to remember what skills you have developed 3 or more years ago.
  4. mpyan1

    mpyan1 Ton up Member

    Pointless paper exercise. They shouldn't put the name 'Actuarial' in the job title if you're not doing Actuarial work.
  5. selkirk

    selkirk Member

    Does anyone know how many hours of formal learning activities can be claimed for CT9?
  6. Alex87

    Alex87 Active Member

    Would assume about 15, maybe slightly more as day 1 was very long from memory?
  7. PeteSwan

    PeteSwan Made first post

  8. bystander

    bystander Can't stop posting

    I'd say best do it on the way through. When you qualify you have cpd hours to log instead. So it's good practise to keep on top of it. From what you ve read they are changing work based skills requirements along with all syllabus reviews and it will go down n line a bit like qualified Cpd records are. Definitely if you are job changing or your boss is leaving get any signatures before rather than have to try and fond where they are when you qualify.
  9. Rixius

    Rixius Keen member

    So...how far back do we have to go with these learning logs? I'm a recent qualifier after 7 years, so I'd rather not have to go all the way back. If I complete 3 years worth, will it be accepted, as this is the minimum requirement for FIA?
  10. bystander

    bystander Can't stop posting

    I think it's all 7 years then as its all post 2004. There's a line in the guide that says learning logs to cover all your training period and numerous places it says complete every 12 months.
  11. Rixius

    Rixius Keen member

    Ah, that's not what I wanted to hear :( I'd better get cracking.

    When defining the requirements to qualify as a Fellow, the guide says (p4):

    "You will need to complete a minimum of three years of work-based skills training, and cover all seven of the key dimensions in your discussion and learning logs

    You need to answer a minimum of twelve review questions, with one taken from each of the seven key dimensions. The other questions you can use cover any of the key dimensions.

    You will also need to have completed a minimum of 30 hours formal learning activity

    These minimum periods begin when you start to complete your learning logs. This doesn't necessarily need to be from the time you first join the IFoA as a student"

    The only direct reference to the actual 'starting' of the work based skills I could find in the guide was:

    "You will usually start doing this once you begin working in an actuarial role" (p2)
  12. almost_there

    almost_there Can't stop posting

    Check with them if supplying 3 years is OK. That's what it suggested to me from reading their guide. People who joined before 2004 only need 3 years work experience so it would seem wrong if you had to demonstrate 7.
  13. bystander

    bystander Can't stop posting

    There is another clause about not needing learning logs if your employer has been accredited so you can just use appraisal forms.
  14. ActEder

    ActEder Very Active Member

    Hi, does anyone know where the list of review questions is and is there a standard form where these are completed?
  15. mugono

    mugono Ton up Member

    Work based skills is in the process of being phased out.

    I would suggest going into the IFoAs website and typing in PPD for more info.
  16. almost_there

    almost_there Can't stop posting

    It's very unfair people have to do this in order to become a fully qualified actuary. On the continent often people qualify from just completing an actuarial degree.
  17. ActEder

    ActEder Very Active Member

    Yes it is and I've been able to confirm that I have to do a mixture of PPD and WBS in order to transfer to fellow.
    On the log form there is a section for the student to fill up about answers to "review questions" - does anyone know about these or where can I find info?
  18. mugono

    mugono Ton up Member

  19. ActEder

    ActEder Very Active Member

    Is it at least 12 questions per log? Would 7 review questions suffice as that would be one for each of the 7 dimensions?
  20. jimplenty

    jimplenty Keen member

    Depends on the mix of PPD and WBS you are required to do. For me, I am on 1 Year PPD + 2 Year WBS arrangement. So I wrote 8 Essays in total (2/3 of 12 required) and the essays spans across all 7 dimensions. I wrote 2 essays from Section A. I submitted 3 logs (because I changed WBS supervisor at some point) - first log with 3 essays questions, second log with another 3 questions, last log with 2 questions.

    For PPD, I was supposed to do 7 Units pro rata (1/3 of 20 units required). So what I did was ticked off all the compulsory ones from 3 dimensions, ticking off 8 units.

    They signed off my WBS requirement.
  21. student413

    student413 Made first post

    Hi Rixius, have you had any update or feedback from IFoA on the requirement? I am in the same boat where I have recently qualified with 9 years of experience... and I will need to do a mix of PPD + WBS. Does it mean I have to go all the way for 9 years of the learning log?

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