US vs UK actuarial exams

[Ada Wong]

A friend of mine recently migrated to Asia to work. He told me that most people in his office study for the actuarial exams under the US system. He also suggested that the US exams are comparatively slightly easier. (He qualified under the UK system and was feeling proud (?) and perhaps a bit slightly hard done by as well ) Not sure if I got this right but this maybe because some of their exams are assignment based and some even got multiple choices type question.

I am not familiar with the US actuarial exam system at all, just wondering what's your view on this? Seems like a poll maybe appropriate.

 

[Viki2010]

if you go to actuarial outpost forum, where people from the US are posting, they will laugh at a statement that US exams are easier than UK exams they get quite agressive too....

 

[Edwin]

U may say so since the UK exams are more than the US!

 

[Viki2010]

Here is the link from actuarial outpost. The US students are saying that they have more exams than the UK system and everybody is mocking down the idea of exemptions which do not exist in the US.

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=191186

 

[Oxymoron]

Here is the link from actuarial outpost. The US students are saying that they have more exams than the UK system and everybody is mocking down the idea of exemptions which do not exist in the US.

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=191186

Looks like they weren't sneering at the UK exams, just the university exemptions. Maybe somebody who's attended these courses can better detail how objectively their papers were evaluated, in comparison with the IOA exams.

A friend of mine writes his exams from the SOA and I could really compare the effort he puts in for the SOA papers and the level of mastery required as equivalent to the Indian (or UK) system. IMHO, they can be differentiated in terms of structure, but certainly not in terms of difficulty or the effort required.

Edit: BTW, although I did not take that route, I have VEE credits for the SOA papers owing to university exemptions, for which I must have put in 1/20th of the effort that was required to pass the equivalent CT2,3 and 7. They may have a partially valid point.

 

[Calum]

I think it's something of a non-issue. The direction of travel for the UK profession is to move the more basic technical content into the university sphere, and there are sound arguments for doing so.

The US has quite a different entry level employment market where sitting a number of [SOA/CAS] papers is the norm. I think the attitude of the original poster in the thread reflects that (and perhaps insufficient research on the part of the applicants he talks about).

The trouble with the Actuarial Outpost is that opinions are often expressed as fact with no particular basis. A few grams of NaCl required.

 

[DevonMatthews]

Whats the point of asking this question on boards that are either dominated by US exam takers or UK exam takers.. Each will claim that their own system is "harder".

At the end of the day they all have mutual recognition and they wouldn't do this unless the education systems were of a comparable quality, which they are because pass rates are about the same (at the level of the professions exams, university exemptions are a load of bulls***)

 

[Viki2010]

Whats the point of asking this question on boards that are either dominated by US exam takers or UK exam takers.. Each will claim that their own system is "harder".

At the end of the day they all have mutual recognition and they wouldn't do this unless the education systems were of a comparable quality, which they are because pass rates are about the same (at the level of the professions exams, university exemptions are a load of bulls***)

Good point about everybody on the forum will always defend their system to be better or harder....Although American FSA and UK FIA or Australian qualifications are extremely close, maybe also Indian based on the UK system.

About the mutual recognition for Europen qualification, I do not agree... The Actuarial Profession gave recognition to "fellows" from Europe, where in some countries there are e.g. 4 exams or just a degree in Act Sci. By no means that is equal to the efforts of gaining an FIA qualification.

 

[mattt78]

which is best?

I work with a guy who did some of the UK exams, then swapped to the US exams (because he moved over there to work). This was quite a while ago - maybe 15 years - but he said the US exams were noticably simpler than those in the UK.

I'd be interested to know how the structure of the US exams differ. Is there more specialisation in the US exams, e.g. in general insurance/life/pensions or even further, e.g. GI reserving/pricing/capital modelling etc? I work in general insurance and find it a bit strange that I had to take 8 CT exams, of which the majority has no relevance to my area of work at all. I think I heard there is more/earlier specialisation in the US system

 

[Ada Wong]

I guess my original question was directed more to people who have switched or know someone who did. It's interesting that I only heard of people who switched from UK to US system. Wondering if there's others out there switched from US to UK system.

I had a quick read on the Society of actuaries website and was slightly confused with their system. Think you have to pick which field you want to go into quite early on.

 

[Viki2010]

I guess my original question was directed more to people who have switched or know someone who did. It's interesting that I only heard of people who switched from UK to US system. Wondering if there's others out there switched from US to UK system.

I had a quick read on the Society of actuaries website and was slightly confused with their system. Think you have to pick which field you want to go into quite early on.

You have to pick a filed after becoming an Associate, which is the same as in the UK system - also have to pick your STs after Associate.

In general, the US students are saying they have to do more exams after the Associate level in comparison to the UK system.

 

[MindFull]

Well I work at a company where there are students who do the SOA exams, and students like me who do IOA exams. After becoming an Associate under SOA, they have maybe 3 or 4 exams left but they also have courses that they have to complete, while under our system, we only have courses before becoming an Associate (well other than the courses the UK-based students have to take for fellowship). I'd like to say it's basically the same. The SOA students may become associates first, but the IOA students may catch up when it comes to the Fellowship. We all struggle with the exams. Difficulty seems to be equivalent in my opinion.

 

[elliepoon]

interesting...

maybe someone who wrote exam under both systems can shed some light...

 

[rshenoy]

I am aiming to qualify both under US and UK systems and while I will get exemptions for most initial papers under the US systems (against CT passes), I have had to appear for exam P and FM, equivalent of CT 3 and CT 1 - I cleared these under the Indian system which US does not give exemptions against.

I have so far appeared for Exam P under the US system and compared to UK's CT 3, exam P is a walk in the park. The syllabus is about half of CT 3, and the questions are very simple multiple choice ones. It took me 2 days to revise and I scored the highest grade of 10. I have reviewed exam FM questions too and they seem easier still.

I am also doing the FAP module which is equivalent of CA1 and it is pretty easy too, some exercises and submissions - none of which appears to need too much struggle at least no slaving toil that CA1 commands.

I am not sure of the CT 4,5,6 and 8 equivalents as I am getting exemptions, so I haven't even taken a look at the papers. On the whole, I can assure you all that if you are struggling with CA1 or need to clear the initial few papers quickly .... go west.

 

[Viki2010]

I am aiming to qualify both under US and UK systems and while I will get exemptions for most initial papers under the US systems (against CT passes), I have had to appear for exam P and FM, equivalent of CT 3 and CT 1 - I cleared these under the Indian system which US does not give exemptions against.

I have so far appeared for Exam P under the US system and compared to UK's CT 3, exam P is a walk in the park. The syllabus is about half of CT 3, and the questions are very simple multiple choice ones. It took me 2 days to revise and I scored the highest grade of 10. I have reviewed exam FM questions too and they seem easier still.

I am also doing the FAP module which is equivalent of CA1 and it is pretty easy too, some exercises and submissions - none of which appears to need too much struggle at least no slaving toil that CA1 commands.

I am not sure of the CT 4,5,6 and 8 equivalents as I am getting exemptions, so I haven't even taken a look at the papers. On the whole, I can assure you all that if you are struggling with CA1 or need to clear the initial few papers quickly .... go west.

I'm doing FAP as well!

 

[Viki2010]

I am aiming to qualify both under US and UK systems and while I will get exemptions for most initial papers under the US systems (against CT passes), I have had to appear for exam P and FM, equivalent of CT 3 and CT 1 - I cleared these under the Indian system which US does not give exemptions against.

I have so far appeared for Exam P under the US system and compared to UK's CT 3, exam P is a walk in the park. The syllabus is about half of CT 3, and the questions are very simple multiple choice ones. It took me 2 days to revise and I scored the highest grade of 10. I have reviewed exam FM questions too and they seem easier still.

I am also doing the FAP module which is equivalent of CA1 and it is pretty easy too, some exercises and submissions - none of which appears to need too much struggle at least no slaving toil that CA1 commands.

I am not sure of the CT 4,5,6 and 8 equivalents as I am getting exemptions, so I haven't even taken a look at the papers. On the whole, I can assure you all that if you are struggling with CA1 or need to clear the initial few papers quickly .... go west.

It would be really funny if you posted your note in the actuarial outpost forum.

 

[Ada Wong]

I am aiming to qualify both under US and UK systems and while I will get exemptions for most initial papers under the US systems (against CT passes), I have had to appear for exam P and FM, equivalent of CT 3 and CT 1 - I cleared these under the Indian system which US does not give exemptions against.

I have so far appeared for Exam P under the US system and compared to UK's CT 3, exam P is a walk in the park. The syllabus is about half of CT 3, and the questions are very simple multiple choice ones. It took me 2 days to revise and I scored the highest grade of 10. I have reviewed exam FM questions too and they seem easier still.

I am also doing the FAP module which is equivalent of CA1 and it is pretty easy too, some exercises and submissions - none of which appears to need too much struggle at least no slaving toil that CA1 commands.

I am not sure of the CT 4,5,6 and 8 equivalents as I am getting exemptions, so I haven't even taken a look at the papers. On the whole, I can assure you all that if you are struggling with CA1 or need to clear the initial few papers quickly .... go west.

Multiple choices!!!

 

[rshenoy]

I'm doing FAP as well!

I am planning to do CA2 from IoA, UK and get exemption for modules 6-8 & final assessment and do modules 1 to 5 of FAP. My short cut through CA1 equivalent. But it will not get me exemption from UK CA1 :-(, unless I complete 6-8 and final assessment.

 

[Viki2010]

I am planning to do CA2 from IoA, UK and get exemption for modules 6-8 & final assessment and do modules 1 to 5 of FAP. My short cut through CA1 equivalent. But it will not get me exemption from UK CA1 :-(, unless I complete 6-8 and final assessment.

why not taking a complete FAP - mod 1-8 and get exemption from CA1 and get an ASA accreditation straight after that?

 

[rshenoy]

why not taking a complete FAP - mod 1-8 and get exemption from CA1 and get an ASA accreditation straight after that?

It's a bit complicated, but you specifically queried . I answered CA1 in Sep 11, have no hope of passing, in fact I think I'll do worse than my FA in April. But I have my Indian CA1 coming up next week and I am much better prepared. If I pass the Indian one then I can be exempted from the UK CA1, provided I apply after passing all CA's under the Indian scheme. But SoA does not recognise the Indian exams. Hence the plan now is to do FAP module 1 to 5 + interim and CA 2 from IoA, UK. CA2 is a couple of days' course and might not require as much time as the later modules and the final assessment - or so I think. Of course, if god forbid I flunk Indian CA1 too then it is FAP all the way for me. I am not wasting anymore time on CA1.

BTW how many modules of FAP have you completed?

 

[Viki2010]

It's a bit complicated, but you specifically queried . I answered CA1 in Sep 11, have no hope of passing, in fact I think I'll do worse than my FA in April. But I have my Indian CA1 coming up next week and I am much better prepared. If I pass the Indian one then I can be exempted from the UK CA1, provided I apply after passing all CA's under the Indian scheme. But SoA does not recognise the Indian exams. Hence the plan now is to do FAP module 1 to 5 + interim and CA 2 from IoA, UK. CA2 is a couple of days' course and might not require as much time as the later modules and the final assessment - or so I think. Of course, if god forbid I flunk Indian CA1 too then it is FAP all the way for me. I am not wasting anymore time on CA1.

BTW how many modules of FAP have you completed?

I just purchased FAP a few days ago and I am on Mondule 1 at the moment.

I am just wondering how do you find time to do 3 systems of qualification? Wouldn't it be easier and faster to only do UK system and get conversion into US system. And hopefully conversion into Indian?