Third year maths student needs advice

[wanderlust.xx]

Hello! This is my first post here and I'm glad I've found this place. I've been trying to get advice from graduates who have come out the other side for a while.

I am a maths student who is just about to enter his final year. After much deliberation, I've decided I would love to do actuary even though statistics isn't my strongest subject. I'm alright at it and got B's in my stats modules at A level... Is this a poor achievement or is actuary work nothing like the stats I'm doing now? (admittedly I got better when doing my degree)

I also have another 3 months before I go back to university. I'm not sure if I'd be able to get any actuarial work experience... Is this going to severely dampen my prospects? I'm predicted a 1st if that helps at all.

Finally, applications... Does anyone have any tips for the online applications so that I can pass through the first round? Interview shouldn't be too bad I suppose.

 

[mattt78]

summer activities to improve employment prospects

If you can't get any work experience over the summer, maybe you should consider studying CT1 - the next exam sitting is in the first week of October, which would suit you nicely i'd have thought.

The key concern any potential employer will have is that you are committed to an actuarial career, and understand what it entails, so anything you can do to convince them of this will be of great help and put you at an advantage in a recruitment process, in my opinion. The two best ways to do this would be either some relevant work experience, or taking (and passing) CT1. You can take CT1 without becoming a member of the institute, and it has an average pass rate of 70-80%, so its do-able.

(It's around 150-200 hours of study required i'd say, depending on your existing knowledge, speed of learning and ability).

Do others agree with this suggestion?

 

[bystander]

You need to be near a head office or consulting office to get actuarial experience, but try to get insurance exposure. Eg is there a nearby call centre. If you have contact with customers that are going through insurance claims, or buying, that will build up industry knowledge and prove you have good communication skills. Don't underestimate how valuable communication skills are. So even if you work in a shop, there is the communication element there. The other differentiator is proving you can be a team player, with the potential to lead.

You may not get hands on experience of actuarial work, but some will let you work shadow for a day or too. Even getting to sit down with an actuary to discuss the profession can be good for you and proves commitment.

Don't worry too much about stats - its more important I think if you do general insurance and there are statistical exams to pass but you'll be fine.

Pick your options in the last year carefully, and if you have a project perhaps you could go for something that could equally apply in the insurance/financial services world.

Its competitive to get in, so at the very least, read widely around issues the life/pensions industry face. Eg there are lots of articles around pensions struggles, and recently articles around gender disctrimation. This helps at interview but isn't quite so helpful on making an app shine.

All the best... you are right to start making your move NOW.

 

[wanderlust.xx]

Okay so I got my results for second year and got 91 in Probability with a 78 average overall, with two other 90+. Will this help at all?


I've been looking into places like Towers Watson, which is a highly reputed company. Their graduate application process looks extremely intimidating... Reasoning tests, phone interview, numeracy tests, live interview, assessment centre, one on one presentation, group presentation... Wow!

Would getting into somewhere like that boost my overall employability once Im qualified or will getting into any other reputable firm do just as nicely?

Also, i'll be teaching next year so my communication skills are evident from that I suppose.

I'll mostly be applying through grad schemes. I'd have thought that employers would want to see a high level of mathematical ability combined with a knack for exams and a love of maths, rather than a commitment to actuarial work in general...? Or is showing that you love actuarial work more important?

Finally, I'm thinking about doing a masters at Warwick/Lse/Oxbridge in financial maths or statistical sciences. To what extent would this help in an application? Is it simply not worth the hassle of spending 22k and a year?

 

[bystander]

The interview process for all grads tends to be similar in that there will be team and individual things like psychometric tests, reasoning tests etc to get through. And of course 1-1 interview. They have to be able to seperate you somehow, as on paper all grads look much the same.

I'd say they are really looking to see that you are keen on the actuarial career. Your mathematical skills are evident. Its how you will make the change to cope with work and study.... really different to university. They need you to work well in an office, be pragmatic and eager to learn. They don't simply want someone who can pass exams. They are looking for potential business acumen, leadership qualities, teamplaying etc.

As for doing further education, its a big outlay unless you get sponsorship and thats another tough battle in its own right. In some companies, they take a view they would rather get you in the office and build up your skills there, rather than take someone with loads of theoretical knowledge and no practical skills to match. But it can make the journey to qualification quicker and that can be important to some (not all) cos.

Cheers

 

[mattt78]

3rd yr maths student

Well I'm not suprised competition for the actuarial consultancies is fierce - working for a well known consultancy is a great way to start an actuarial career, which will get you good experience and look good on the cv, but I wouldn't get hung up on getting onto one of those schemes. There are loads of actuaries working in the london insurance market - for lloyd's syndicates for example - where formal grad schemes probably aren't in place, but where trainee actuaries are regularly recruited. These places might not have format training programmes in place like larger firms, but give you just as good experience. I'd suggest contacting some of the recruiters that deal specifically with actuarial jobs - oliver james, arc, darwin rhodes etc, as well as trying the grad scheme route.

I think the teaching will go down well with potential employers - a suprising amount of actuarial recruitment is based on personality, and softer skills, since technical ability can generally be assumed. So this is something I would emphasise in any applications.

I'd say proof of commitment to an actuarial career is vital for a trainee actuary post - much more so than a 'love of maths'. You need to demonstrate you have done alot of research to understand what is involved, and didn't just decide to apply on a whim.

I really don't think the statistical sciences course will help much. I'd say you'd be much more employable with a year's experience of doing almost anything vaguely actuarial under your belt (especially if you also take the first few CT exams), than another year studying at uni. And obviously it won't cost you £22k to do it.

 

[wanderlust.xx]

I'll bear in mind the information regarding alternate actuarial employment routes, that'll definitely help.

I'm quite scared of the recruitment process for grad schemes, really. They're tremendously competitive and seem to require a great grasp of what's ahead along with a passion for the subject. Especially the presentation, that's probably one of the only things that's going to kill me!

From what I've heard from talking to some graduates on the scheme, they've all said that work experience isn't essential but showing that you've got plenty of examples of the core competencies is far more important.

I suppose I shouldn't be worrying too much. Most of the people who got onto graduate schemes didn't have any actuarial or financial work experience but just researched thoroughly and made it through.

 

[Calum]

Don't be too scared of the application processes. They are demanding, but for anyone that has succesfully completed a degree they are achievable.

You sound well placed to succeed - I'd recommend using your uni's careers department, especially any interview and CV writing advice they can give. Don't assume that being personable and not too nervous means you're a good interviewee - being able to answer the questions asked is something of an artform.

As far as catching any work experience this summer goes, you are definitely late to the party, but if you blitz every potential employer going you may get lucky. If you would consider taking a year out of uni to work in an office that might (or might not) be a bit easier, and would be good experience too. Also, hit up the temp firms like Reed, etc, and tell them you're looking for temp work in financial services. Any large firm has a constant demand for low-level staff of one sort or another.

 

[bystander]

With presentations, practise really does help. Even if its just standing in front of a mirror and talking it can help. Note things like how you stand and how much you use your hands. Its fine to use them, just don't frantically wave. When you practise do it in interview clothes, you will be surprised by looking professional helps.

Can you get any practise in? Speak up in meetings for example. Ever been a best man? Yes thats informal but it gets you used to being heard.

Remember everyone no matter how experienced gets the butterfly feeling. Controlled adrenalin is good not bad. So when faced with this hurdle, smile, talk clearly and slowly, breathe (its easy to forget that one!) and go in confident that you can come across coherent, logical and approachable.

 

[hamburglar]

wanderlust.xx

My first advice would be apply to firms/jobs you really like the look of in September/October. There isn't really any need to do CT1 or a masters just yet. If you're good enough and a good fit with your employer, you should make it without these. Perhaps think about these this time next year if you don't have a job, but need 'extra evidence' if you still want to apply for actuarial work.

Think about what type of job you want. I didn't like the statistics bit of my degree that much and I'm glad I went into pensions - the day-to-day work doesn't involve much statistical knowledge and I get to use my communication and problem solving skills more than complex maths and endless modelling. Research the different fields before you apply and have a good idea of what people actually do in the field you eventually choose - you will be asked!

Finally, don't let the application processes put you off. You're not expected to deliver a perfect presentation, but you should be able to demonstrate that you will make a good consultant in the medium term.

 

[wanderlust.xx]

Thank you very much for your replies everyone, you've been extremely helpful! I just have one or two further questions regarding the mathematical content and support offered by firms.

I am certainly on track for a 1st class degree. I am definitely concerned about self studying for these exams, though, since it seems that people who have come from a more rigorous mathematical background than myself (higher ranked universities, further maths A level) also have difficulty with the exams.

Firstly, if I have a question with regards to a particular topic, what resources do I have? I know ActEd will certainly help, but are there certain companies that hold tuition classes or seminars of some sort? Or is it a case of simply paying for my material and heading off?

I am the sort of person that learns by doing the maths involved, and understanding the logic behind it. If I don't understand the logic, I try harder or ask someone for help. Will there be others around to ask or will it be a 'do it yourself' mentality?

Secondly, if I were to fail a module over and over, would this affect my salary or position at the company in any way after I've passed a couple of other exams?

Thank you very much for your help! It's proving to be invaluable!

 

[Calum]

With the earlier exams, I think success is proportional to effort expended. The material is not more demanding than degree level maths, but you need to have the self discipline to work through it by yourself and be honest with yourself about what you do and do not know. Just like university, it's possible to think you know "enough" and come a cropper in the exam.

In terms of resources, Acted do a range of services, not just the notes. There are also textbooks which cover much of the same material, and of course a lot of the technical material is generic.

In terms of study support and progression, it depends entirely on where you work. But no, companies will not go around sacking people for failing an exam a few times.

 

[mattt78]

wanderlust

in case you didn't know, the notes (if you get the combined study materials pack) come with lots of Q&A banks to practice on, as well as assignments with model solutions (or alternatively you can pay extra to send these off to be marked). Also there past papers with solutions you can download for free from the institute site, and these go back at least 6 years.

with all of that' there's plenty of opportunity to 'learn by doing. a large proportion of people taking the exams will rely on these things alone, and they should be enough to get you through the exams. If you put the hours and effort in to prepare properly, you'd be pretty unlucky not to pass.

Acted do offer a range of other learning aids though, notably including tutorials, which many people find very helpful. These are typically 2 days for a CT subject I think. They could look expensive if you're paying for them with your own money though. All the details of these should be on the site.