Study Leave

[Catrina]

Would appreciate some feedback on how common it is for employers to give eg a day off to study on a weekly basis. Cause I'm having to negotiate study leave with my employer and if this is not normal I'll want to change employers!

 

[Deniese]

this is very normal....I get one day off a week for study plus some time off before exams.

who is your employers, cos you shuldn't have to negotiate anything, everything should already be in place..... Basically, actuarial benefits are quite standard for companies, the only thing that differs is generally the pay you get per exam passes and the study materials and exams that they will pay for.

 

[olly]

We have a bank system. We start off with 40 study days in the bank and can spend them how we like - within reason - nothing to be taken monday morning or friday afternoon and we need to be negotiable in times of heavy work.

For each 100 series exam I believe we got 8 days back, 12 days for a 300 / ST.

This seems a reasonable system as it encourages responsible use of study periods, rewards you for passing the exam and if, horror of horrors, you ran out of study bank it would give your employer an indication that you aren't passing the exams at an acceptable rate.

My employers are ex-SNL actuaries, now part of Mercer's so it would not surprise me if the situation was similar over there - although others with direct knoweldge may well know better.

 

[Dha]

We get 9 days per subject, including a day for the exam. It's usual to take a day per week, though a lot of people take a block of time off before the exams as well, usually from their own holidays. I doubt it varies that much between employers, the main ones at least.

 

[LouiseF]

Negotiating Study Leave

Hi Katharina,

I started my exams in my old job. I was the first actuarial student that they had and there were no systems in place. On top of that there was no-one to "fill-in" for me when I was on study leave.

So I armed myself with the section of advice to employers from the Student Handbook and went in to see my manager. She was an accountant so she knew the horrors of work/study balance, though not the ins and outs of actuarial study. After much negotiation we finally settled of 5 1/2 hours a week. I took three hours on Weds and 2 1/2 hours of Fris. This wasn't quite a half day per subject (I used to have to take half hour lunches on those days too!), but after a year I was able to renegotiate - good study performance helps (!) as does the line that the exams get harder as they go on.

I hope this helps, study leave does vary by company so it doesn't have to be a black and white issue. You're in a lucky position that you can negotiate as much as you can (possibly a good work skill to have??). Don't forget to negotiate exam days, fees and tutorial days too.

Good luck
Louise

 

[Catrina]

Thanks for your comments everybody.

I seem to be in a similar situation to what you were in, Louise. I am the first actuarial student at the company I am working for, they mainly employ accountants and lawyers. They are very good at paying all expenses, giving me time off for tuition and the exams. It's just studying they believe I can do in my spare time. I will see how successful I am at negotiating and if not at all, look out for other pathways that are smoother than the current one.

 

[olly]

I believe the Institute recommends 20 hours per week per subject for studying. If you're taking more than one subject you should be able to use this as leverage unless your company wants you working junior doctor-like hours!

 

[1917]

Catrina

For info here is the study leave offered by the company that I work for, which they think is fairly consistent with the rest of the market.

Subject 1st Attempt 2nd Attempt 3rd Attempt
CT1-8 8 4 2
BAM 4 2 2
CA1 30 15 8
CA2 4 2 2
CA3 4 2 0
ST* 15 8 4
SA 17 9 5

I can't seem to sort out the formatting but the first number after each subject is for the first attempt, the second for the second and the third for the third.

Hope this helps

 

[ChrisR]

Having passed te exams at a fairly steady rate of 3-4 per year for the last 4 years (1 exam left), I've taken about 40 study days a year.

That breaks down as one a week, every week, except for holidays (5 weeks) and directly after exams (say 4 weeks after September, 3 weeks after April).

I work for a big pensions consultancy with a "bank" system similar to the one Olly described, but starting on 60 days and getting 10 back for 100's and 15 back for 300's.

Judging from comments here and people I've spoken to at tutorials in the past, I've got a pretty generous package (study-wise...) - which I guess is an advantage of starting your career at a big company that employs loads of actuaries and is largely run by actuaries...

C

 

[Catrina]

Negotiating progress

I've got there eventually. And I'm quite pleased about it as my employer specialises in commutations, ie. they are skilled in negotiating the best deals to their advantage. But I managed to get them to realise that it would take forever and a week for me to qualify without study leave and that it benefits them as much as it does me to get the exams out of the way as early as possible.

 

[Catrina]

Puzzled still

Now another question has arisen regarding study leave. If your employer gives you - lets say - 10 days off per subject, to study; When you go to a full day tutorial, do they deduct this day from your study allowance days? Or do you get to go to tutorials in addition to getting this set amount of days off to study?

 

[leafy]

I asked my employers if they would fund me through the Actuarial exams. Although my current job will benefit, and Actuarial work does form part of my job it is not what I am directly employed to do.
They very kindly agreed to fund me, but I get 2 days off per exam and the rest I have to do in my own time. It's not pleasant, but it is possible!

Leafy

 

[Catrina]

8-o

I am no longer going to complain. How do you manage? How many exams do you sit per sitting (eg. CT exams)?

 

[leafy]

2 exams per sitting, so they are going to last me a while!
And I mainly "manage" (Note in inverted commas) by grabbing revision time when I can, on the tube in the morning, lunchtimes, after work etc., taking the 2 days I have off for the two days before the exam and cramming like I've never crammed before :-D
I find that if I stay in the office after work I can get a lot more done than if I go home before I start to revise.

Oh, and trying to find at least one day a month to stuff all of the social life that I am missing into a single evening...I wouldn't survive without my monthly curry ... you've gotta have some kind of life otherwise this stuff will drive you mad!

I can't recommend it to be honest. Get as much time as your company will give you. I feel like I'm going to pop

On the flip side, however, the lack of time *really* makes me concentrate on my revision as I know I can't spare a single second to waste.
Leafy

 

[capitalH]

I am about to negotiate with my employer for a better study leave package (after the CFA guys got a better deal) and found this.

I do have some questions though on study leave packages, to no-one in particular.

If you leave soon after writing an exam, do you only have to pay back the cost of the exam (and notes), or the cost of the study leave as well? How do they calculate it?

How long do you have to work back for? We have a one for one+one deal, so for three years study aid - you have to work back 4 years. This can easily become very long for a actuarial qualification, especially if you can only do one subject at a time.

Does anybody know of any official research done on this, I want something I can use as evidence for what the market is doing. If it has a South Africa base it would be better, but UK would hopefully do. The only document I a aware of is titled "Show me the study!" by Tristan Walker-Buckton on the student page of The Actuary of October 2006.

Hi Katharina,

I started my exams in my old job. I was the first actuarial student that they had and there were no systems in place. On top of that there was no-one to "fill-in" for me when I was on study leave.

I am in more or less the same situation. Luckily a precedent was set by allowing the CFA students more time.

Hi Katharina,
So I armed myself with the section of advice to employers from the Student Handbook and went in to see my manager. She was an accountant so she knew the horrors of work/study balance, though not the ins and outs of actuarial study. After much negotiation we finally settled of 5 1/2 hours a week. I took three hours on Weds and 2 1/2 hours of Fris. This wasn't quite a half day per subject (I used to have to take half hour lunches on those days too!), but after a year I was able to renegotiate - good study performance helps (!) as does the line that the exams get harder as they go on.

I want to try something like this, but unfortunately staff policy dictates that my line manager cannot approve it, it needs to go to a very senior committee. Hence my need for something as official as possible.

My employers are ex-SNL actuaries

Saturday Night Live has actuaries? Where do I apply?

 

[Viki2010]

Hi guys, what is the industry standard in the UK for study packages? Are there any particular rules, for example:
- big actuarial consultancies give typically X
- big multinational insurers give Y
- small UK insurers give Z and
- other companies give W
?

 

[mattt78]

study packages

from what i've heard there is quite a variety of packages, and it seems to vary alot between different types of company as well.

from my experience, working in general insurance, about 8-10 days per CT subject is typical for a first time taker, and 20-30 days for CA1, and about 15 days for a ST. These are broadly consistent in their relative length with the number of suggested study hours per course (200 for an ST, 400 for CA1, and 100-150 for a CT I think). So if you studied for 7.5 hours per study day, and then matched each of these hours with an hour from your own time, you'd accumulate approximately the total suggested number of study hours required.