Study days for new exams

[patron]

Has anybody had to negotiate the number of study days for new exams with their companys?

I'm particularly interested in the case where exams are merging. For example, if you've passed CT1 but not CT5, do you get the whole of the resitting allowance for CM1? The same situation is the case if you've got one of CT4/CT6, and therefore have to now do CS2 instead.

My company provided 10 days for each CT, and we get 50% if we need to resit, if that helps with suggestions.

Any advice for negotiations would be much appreciated!

 

[LondonActuary2018]

Has anybody had to negotiate the number of study days for new exams with their companys?

I'm particularly interested in the case where exams are merging. For example, if you've passed CT1 but not CT5, do you get the whole of the resitting allowance for CM1? The same situation is the case if you've got one of CT4/CT6, and therefore have to now do CS2 instead.

My company provided 10 days for each CT, and we get 50% if we need to resit, if that helps with suggestions.

Any advice for negotiations would be much appreciated!

I'm currently having discussions around SA7, which is causing some headache's as the new exam after they got rid of SA5 and SA6. They aren't budging on combining study time as they are claiming it isn't a 'combing' of exams. I think I'll end up with the standard study leave allowance. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.

 

[Interestec]

My company provided 9 days per CTs and 5 on the first repeat. It's now been changed to this:



This comes with the caveats that students receive fully study day allowance if previously failed once and resit study allowance if failed more than once. We didn't have to have a strict policy about the merger rules but it's been understood that they get back full study allowance.

All the other subjects study days for every other exam remained the same, I hope this helps!

 

[patron]

I'm currently having discussions around SA7, which is causing some headache's as the new exam after they got rid of SA5 and SA6. They aren't budging on combining study time as they are claiming it isn't a 'combing' of exams. I think I'll end up with the standard study leave allowance. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.

I assume the new SA7 is not just combining SA5 and SA6, as that would be way too much material. My company gives the same number of days for each SA (I assume yours is the same).

If you've previously failed SA5/SA6, I think it's only fair they give you full (or at least close to full) study allowance for SA7, because half of the course will be completely new material.

 

[studier]

I'm currently having discussions around SA7, which is causing some headache's as the new exam after they got rid of SA5 and SA6. They aren't budging on combining study time as they are claiming it isn't a 'combing' of exams. I think I'll end up with the standard study leave allowance. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.

From what I understand, SA7 is mainly SA6 with a bit of SA5 and hence is the same size as the other SAs. I am getting the same number of study days as for any other SA (which haven't been changed for the 2019 curiculum)

 

[Infinity]

Previously I could study 125-150 hours if I did one CT. I now have to study 200-250 hours which is 30 days. I’ve passed CT6 after 5 attempts and struggled with my employers to obtain study time for the resits. Since I didn’t pass CT4 I now have to sit the same exam again. How do I tell my employer that after 5 sittings I have to study the same course all over again and require a month off work to do so. What additional benefit will it bring to my employer. I have the same issue with CT1 and CT5 and also CT8 which the Ifoa refuse to admit has doubled.

 

[Interestec]

@Infinity genuine question, when you say you require a month off work, is that a mixture of exam leave and personal leave? I'm only asking to see what other employers are giving as exam support.

 

[Infinity]

My employer is not going to give me 30 days of study time for an exam I’ve already passed. They’ve asked me to take personal holiday. I don’t even get 30 days personal holiday and I’m sure not going to waste my weekends and evenings studying so that I can pay for Mr Cribb to take Mr Haddrill out to dinner. So to answer your question, my employer gives me nothing. I’m expected to do it all off my own back

 

[almost_there]

Is there any documentation out there of how IFoA consulted with employers regarding these matters? Or maybe they were told the same as that said in 2016/7 annual report that no current students would be disadvantaged.

 

[Infinity]

Yes there is. Plenty. Magazine articles, consultations, statements on their website. They all said current students shouldn’t worried. They’ve lied to stakeholders and pushed the new curriculum through

 

[NorthernFusion]

Glad this thread has already been derailed somewhat. Sorry, patron.

 

[Infinity]

Apologies Patron for my colleague Northern Fusion who has not made any relevant comment about your question.

I hope I have answered your question in that my company does not give me any study days and is not happy about me taking exams all over again.

Patron, did you not notice that the initial curriculum 2019 guide said that the exams could be taken separately. Are you sure now that they have to be taken together? I am rather confused as there was no communication on why this has changed. How has your company decided on study days of the IFoA can’t even decide on wherther these exams are to be taken together or not?

 

[patron]

Apologies Patron for my colleague Northern Fusion who has not made any relevant comment about your question.

I hope I have answered your question in that my company does not give me any study days and is not happy about me taking exams all over again.

Patron, did you not notice that the initial curriculum 2019 guide said that the exams could be taken separately. Are you sure now that they have to be taken together? I am rather confused as there was no communication on why this has changed. How has your company decided on study days of the IFoA can’t even decide on wherther these exams are to be taken together or not?

The approach our company has taken is in line with what Interestec posted above regarding allocation of study days for the ex-CT subjects. This approach seems to be used in lots of places (ie same total number of study days as before, but distributed so the larger CS2 and CM1 get more than the smaller subjects).

In your situation (where you have CT6 but not CT4), we're taking it as it comes with deciding how many study days individuals need. For example, if someone has passed CT6 but failed CT4 on a first attempt, they might get around 9 days (the resit allocation for CT4).

One thing I'll be interested to see is how well students do in your situation. In your case, for example, if you're better at the CT6 material, it might be possible to pass scoring 70% on CT6 and 50% on CT4 material. In a sense, merging the exams could help you clear the CT4 material!

 

[Infinity]

I’m afraid I studied CT6 5 times. I’m not going to be reading the material or be examined on it ever again. I don’t have time to study. As you know a lot of the study has to be done in personal time. It would be interesting to see if students who have already passed and demonstrated their competency would be able to score higher a second time but I’m not a gineau pig and I’d rather spend time with my family.

 

[NorthernFusion]

The approach our company has taken is in line with what Interestec posted above regarding allocation of study days for the ex-CT subjects. This approach seems to be used in lots of places (ie same total number of study days as before, but distributed so the larger CS2 and CM1 get more than the smaller subjects).

In your situation (where you have CT6 but not CT4), we're taking it as it comes with deciding how many study days individuals need. For example, if someone has passed CT6 but failed CT4 on a first attempt, they might get around 9 days (the resit allocation for CT4).

One thing I'll be interested to see is how well students do in your situation. In your case, for example, if you're better at the CT6 material, it might be possible to pass scoring 70% on CT6 and 50% on CT4 material. In a sense, merging the exams could help you clear the CT4 material!

My company makes no differentiation between passing one CT but not the other when it comes to the merged modules. Similar to what interestsec said, those needing to sit the merged modules are given a fresh slate study leave wise. Not really sure how students can be "blacklisted" based on number of passes in the old curriculum, since any passes obtained have been converted to the equivalent module in the new curriculum anyway.

I’m doing CS2 just now, and given that you need to learn R now, study days based on one of the modules pre-merge makes zero sense.

 

[Infinity]

Not sure why students are blacklisted!? Perhaps ask the IFOA the same question. That is what is effectively happening by making me repeat the exams, increasing my exam and study burden.

Study hours double for some modules. I don’t see double the amount of time being awarded. Also you’re expected to use your personal time and now I have use double my personal time of which I never had in the first place

 

[Calm]

Not really sure how students can be "blacklisted" based on number of passes in the old curriculum, since any passes obtained have been converted to the equivalent module in the new curriculum anyway.

Could you explain what is meant by "blacklisted" here? Is it like getting a CT1 pass and CT5 exemption?

 

[NorthernFusion]

Could you explain what is meant by "blacklisted" here? Is it like getting a CT1 pass and CT5 exemption?

I mean from the point of view of the employer. Why would it matter if I passed CT1 but not CT5? I would still need to write CM1 under the new curriculum which isn't the direct equivalent of 1+5. Patron mentioned that their study days are scaled if they have one but not the other. Hence why I mentioned "blacklisted", because it feels as though it's unnecessary to punish those who didn't get the second pass to obtain the full exemption. Especially when the merged modules involve computer exams now. Fortunately, my place of work provides a clean slate for those in that exact situation, so a full study package is provided regardless of prior sittings.

 

[mugono]

I’m afraid I studied CT6 5 times. I’m not going to be reading the material or be examined on it ever again. I don’t have time to study. As you know a lot of the study has to be done in personal time. It would be interesting to see if students who have already passed and demonstrated their competency would be able to score higher a second time but I’m not a gineau pig and I’d rather spend time with my family.

Infinity

Control what you are able to and leave the rest.

Qualifying as an actuary is an arduous process. Not everyone who registers as a student Actuary will go on to qualify for a myriad of reasons. Thankfully, qualifying as an Actuary isn’t necessary to have a successful career.

I commend your decision to not want to continue with the exams. However, please recognise that this forum is meant to be educational and helpful to aspiring Actuaries.

I urge you to bow out with grace and leave the forum to students genuinely interested in passing exams and exchanging ideas.

 

[almost_there]

Qualifying as an actuary is an arduous process. Not everyone who registers as a student Actuary will go on to qualify for a myriad of reasons.

Because IFoA present a harder path for some.

I urge you to bow out with grace and leave the forum to students genuinely interested in passing exams and exchanging ideas.

Why should he? It's disastrous IFoA decisions that are causing the inconvenience, that organisation who was slapped down by ASA for misleading statements on its website, just like they made misleading statements on the new curriculum changes.

 

[mugono]

1. There is a standard that all aspiring Actuaries are equally bound.

2. We should all make decisions that are ‘right’ for us. Assertions such as not having time to study or not wanting to be a ‘guinea pig’ could be interpreted as no longer wanting to pursue the exams. I’m happy to be corrected on this.

I suspect knuckling down, remaining open minded and using this forum for the purpose for which it was created would increase one’s chance of passing the exams.

Issues dealing with the conduct of the IFoA should be raised on the relevant platform.