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Sep 2021 online exams

G

GG_3012

Member
For accountancy exams, candidates will be returning to exam centers for their upcoming exams.
Can we be 100% certain this won't be the case for our Sep 2021 exams? Practicing for these online exams is completely different to doing them on paper.
This will be a big change. Can someone please confirm that our next exams will be online? And can they change their minds?!
 
Many universities (including Ivy Leagues) are accepting answer sheet in the form of a pdf file - basically hand written exam, photographed and then saved as ONE pdf file. If pdf file is not acceptable (why should it not be?), it is also possible to copy and paste the pictures in a word document if needed anyway. pdf file is a time saver and therefore in a exam where time is scarce and is difficult to boot, would be more appropriate.

Why does IFOA insist on a typed word answer sheet when it is well known fact that a candidate can write faster than he can type and thus puts the candidates at a disadvantage if he has to type his answers (in exams that in the normal course are none too easy to pass anyway).

Why can IFOA not accept a pdf file or word file of a handwritten answer sheet - pdf being the more appropriate and time saving option? More so when it is going to help candidates do better in their exams.

In other words, what are the significant advantages of a typed word document answer sheet when a handwritten and photographed document will suffice the purpose of evaluating the performance of a candidate on a topic. Most universities are following this too.
 
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meghnaln said:
Many universities (including Ivy Leagues) are accepting answer sheet in the form of a pdf file - basically hand written exam, photographed and then saved as ONE pdf file. If pdf file is not acceptable (why should it not be?), it is also possible to copy and paste the pictures in a word document if needed anyway. pdf file is a time saver and therefore in a exam where time is scarce and is difficult to boot, would be more appropriate.

Why does IFOA insist on a typed word answer sheet when it is well known fact that a candidate can write faster than he can type and thus puts the candidates at a disadvantage if he has to type his answers (in exams that in the normal course are none too easy to pass anyway).

Why can IFOA not accept a pdf file or word file of a handwritten answer sheet - pdf being the more appropriate and time saving option? More so when it is going to help candidates do better in their exams.

In other words, what are the significant advantages of a typed word document answer sheet when a handwritten and photographed document will suffice the purpose of evaluating the performance of a candidate on a topic. Most universities are following this too.
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I think that the move to typing based exams introduces significant difficulties for the earlier CM/CS exams. The later exams are less affected by this, and most people sitting these will be working in an office and will likely have some typing experience, so I think that the speed of typing is likely to be faster than that of writing in the majority of cases. From my own experiences I definitely increased in speed, and didn't have to worry about my handwriting being illegible especially towards the end where you're rushing! I imagine uploading images etc may result in some of their software having issues, for instance the plagiarism checks would be more difficult to do which could impact results timelines. If I remember correctly the IFoA published something mentioning this as a possible future update they may be looking at? Could be mistaken on this point though. Agree it would be very well merited, particularly for mathematical subjects, which still carry on to the SPs through SP6.
 
meghnaln said:
In other words, what are the significant advantages of a typed word document answer sheet when a handwritten and photographed document will suffice the purpose of evaluating the performance of a candidate on a topic. Most universities are following this too.
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Perhaps their anti plagiarism software can't deal with handwritten scripts...?
 
almost_there said:
Perhaps their anti plagiarism software can't deal with handwritten scripts...?
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I think this could be the reason.

But then whether that is reason enough to not have the handwritten option is another question altogether.

While I have seen the post on plagiarism (and the distress it is causing candidates) on the forum, may be asking the following questions might help IFOA to think of majority of the candidates writing the exam and come up with a more pragmatic solution.

1. Would majority of the candidates really indulge in plagiarism for a few marks that may not get them past the finishing line? Common sense says NO. A common sense approach would also show that those who indulge in plagiarism are unlikely to gain so much as to pass.
2. Would most candidates have time to do it? Candidates barely have time to raise their head from the paper during the exam as it is a race against time. In such a case, would most candidates take out precious time to copy and paste? I would assume not. May be IFOA thinks otherwise.
3. Would candidates not think it might be better to move on to the next question that they can answer rather than search for the answer in the open book and then copy and paste?
4. Would candidates know or remember where (the exact page) to find the answer? If they know this, they are likely to know the answer too. If they don't, they are going to spend a huge amount of time ferreting it out and thus be unable to complete the paper. How many candidates would indulge in this?
5. Is this not the case that IFOA is punishing the majority (who have studied hard, prepared well, might answer well and do not indulge in plagiarism) in order to punish the minority (who anyway would not have passed)?
6. What purpose does it serve to punish the majority to unearth a not so significant minority? Is justice really served? Does it really help IFOA to solve its plagiarism problem?
7. Considering the distress caused to majority of the candidates (who have studied hard, prepared well, might answer well and do not indulge in plagiarism) by the anti-plagiarism witch hunt, IFOA should ask itself if this the right approach.

IMO, punishing the majority for an insignificant minority (who anyway are unlikely to pass if they have to plagiarise), is doing great disservice to the majority of the candidates (who work hard, prepare well and hope to write the exam well).
 
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meghnaln said:
I think this could be the reason.

But then whether that is reason enough to not have the handwritten option is another question altogether.
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It's just not fair to deny handwritten option, if the exams are meant to be about demonstrating competence to qualify as an actuary.
 
CM and CS series are way too difficult when writing answers on Word. Failed last 2 attempts of CM1 just because I couldn't think and write at the same time.

For God's sake! Please bring back exam centres. Else, no other option but to shift towards SoA.
 
almost_there said:
It's just not fair to deny handwritten option, if the exams are meant to be about demonstrating competence to qualify as an actuary.
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You could say having a time limit isn't fair either sure, how often in work do you only have 3 hours to do work?
 
newkid said:
You could say having a time limit isn't fair either sure, how often in work do you only have 3 hours to do work?
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A disabled student challenged them on this point in Court but they claimed it was essential thing to test... meaning no adjustment could be made even for a disabled person who needed more time.
 
almost_there said:
A disabled student challenged them on this point in Court but they claimed it was essential thing to test... meaning no adjustment could be made even for a disabled person who needed more time.
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So did an independent court rule with or against the IFoA?
 
Syed M Arsalan Farooq said:
CM and CS series are way too difficult when writing answers on Word. Failed last 2 attempts of CM1 just because I couldn't think and write at the same time.

For God's sake! Please bring back exam centres. Else, no other option but to shift towards SoA.
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My thought too (moving to SOA)! Also why take exams and pay the fees when there is every likelihood of the exam being made tougher and you might be booked for plagiarism due to intransigence in looking at an alternative way of conducting an exam that is fair to the candidates. I am also planning to wait for exam centers to open up before writing the exams (CS2 and CM2). Not only fees, the time spent can be utilized for other more useful purposes.

Imagine the combo
1. Tough exam
2. Could be accused of plagiarism with no recourse to candidates - banned from exams and the like as punishment
3. Have to type it in word, making it tougher

All because...
1. IFOA is not willing to listen to the woes of the candidates
2. Is stuck on plagiarism despite its chances being 1 on a scale of 10 and not finding ways to handle it without making it tougher for candidates
3. Because IFOA cannot find a way to proctor the exam
4. Stuck on a format which makes the exam tougher instead of focusing on how to make it easier for candidates by seeing how the difficulties can be overcome without making it tougher on students.
5. Students are not writing this for fun. It takes months of studies and practice. How come making it tougher for them a good practice? It is not as if we are asking IFOA to set a paper that is easy. All we are asking is do not make an already tough exam tougher just because you cannot or do not want to find a better solution that aids rather than hinders students.
6. How come highly reputed universities that follow a system of handwritten answer papers uploaded to the server is not a good example to follow? If you cannot come up with a good system the least you can do is to follow a good system that is working.

In short, it would appear, for IFOA, candidates are simply exam fees paying ducks to be played with at will. Sad.
 
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meghnaln said:
6. How come highly reputed universities that follow a system of handwritten answer papers uploaded to the server is not a good example to follow? If you cannot come up with a good system the least you can do is to follow a good system that is working.

In short, it would appear, for IFOA, candidates are simply exam fees paying ducks to be played with at will. Sad.
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You make very good points. On Universities, do those on actuarial science courses accredited by IFoA have to answer in Word also or do they get to submit handwritten and not have to worry about plagiarism accusations?
 
Very good points made.

Unfortunately, typing answers in Word has disadvantaged many students that are not extremely fast in typing. Personally I never managed to complete an online exam but rather attempt around max 75% of it. This was never the case on written exams. So when you have to achieve 60+ pass marks the result can only be borderline which is not comforting, especially in more subjective exams.

I cannot imagine how I could cope with earlier, more technical exams and equations.

Unfortunately it is too late for me to move to SOA but this is the proper move. I am working outside the UK and even though in the past people would choose either society, now young students would choose almost always SOA (unless they have many exemptions from UK universities).
 
I don't think the exam rules are going to change. My suggestion to anyone worried about typing speed is to make sure you are clear on the rules of touch typing (loads of resources online) and practice for 10 minutes a day, copy typing anything - a few pages from a book, a section from a newspaper etc. You will become really fast really soon (even by September).

For the earlier exams I do agree that it takes a lot of practice getting used to those symbols. The only thing that worked for me was to do all my practice on a computer and never touch a pen and paper.
 
Gract said:
Very good points made.

Unfortunately, typing answers in Word has disadvantaged many students that are not extremely fast in typing. Personally I never managed to complete an online exam but rather attempt around max 75% of it. This was never the case on written exams. So when you have to achieve 60+ pass marks the result can only be borderline which is not comforting, especially in more subjective exams.

I cannot imagine how I could cope with earlier, more technical exams and equations.

Unfortunately it is too late for me to move to SOA but this is the proper move. I am working outside the UK and even though in the past people would choose either society, now young students would choose almost always SOA (unless they have many exemptions from UK universities).
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There are going to be pro's and con's though. I know for every written exam i did, that i struggled sometimes to read my own writing such was the amount of writing and being tired writing - this is not a problem any more - my answers are clear and easy to read. Was it fair that the person marking my script couldn't read my writing and so gave me zero, because i was rushed? No, but that's the way it was.

On the flip side, some of the more math based exam with symbols will be tougher, but people are passing, so it is possible. It's not as if the passing rate is down at single digits.

In my work environment i rarely use pen and paper - it's all on the computer, so moving to an online format hasn't really affected me and shouldn't really affect anyone - it's 2021 not 1991

If the IFoA came out and said that they were cancelling exams until the pandemic was over there would be uproar. If they changed the format so that there were no book work questions and only application - there would be uproar, and folk would say it's not fair etc. They won't be able to please everyone.

I think they should move to the proctor application system - why they don't i have no idea - perhaps large number of students are using work computers/laptops and wouldn't have access to download software, or the cost is to high, or maybe just maybe it's only a small fraction of people complaining about the current system.
 
newkid said:
There are going to be pro's and con's though. I know for every written exam i did, that i struggled sometimes to read my own writing such was the amount of writing and being tired writing - this is not a problem any more - my answers are clear and easy to read. Was it fair that the person marking my script couldn't read my writing and so gave me zero, because i was rushed? No, but that's the way it was.

On the flip side, some of the more math based exam with symbols will be tougher, but people are passing, so it is possible. It's not as if the passing rate is down at single digits.

In my work environment i rarely use pen and paper - it's all on the computer, so moving to an online format hasn't really affected me and shouldn't really affect anyone - it's 2021 not 1991

If the IFoA came out and said that they were cancelling exams until the pandemic was over there would be uproar. If they changed the format so that there were no book work questions and only application - there would be uproar, and folk would say it's not fair etc. They won't be able to please everyone.

I think they should move to the proctor application system - why they don't i have no idea - perhaps large number of students are using work computers/laptops and wouldn't have access to download software, or the cost is to high, or maybe just maybe it's only a small fraction of people complaining about the current system.
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I am not saying one or the other (though I would prefer handwritten myself). However, for mathematical calculations, handwritten is likely to be the better choice for most candidates if you take a poll. IFOA can allow both. No one is stopping them. After all the idea is to enable to candidate to do as well as he can.

1) If as you say your handwriting is unreadable go for word
2) If I am slow in typing I go for handwritten- handwritten and scanned (Many universities are doing this - some proctored though)

What is really being tested - the knowledge of the subject or whether you can type better or write better.

What is the problem in allowing both? - Both of us are happy and it serves IFOA purpose too - to evaluate correctly with no candidate at a disadvantage.

"On the flip side, some of the more math based exam with symbols will be tougher"

This is exactly my point. At least CS1, CS2, CM1, CM2 has to have a paper based - handwritten and scanned - option. However those who want to submit in word should be able to. That way each candidate is able to put his best foot forward. No uniformity may be but that should be a non-issue as after all in both cases it is going to be printed for marking. In that case how does it matter to IFOA whether it is handwritten and scanned or typed in word. As almost_there mentioned it could be an issue of plagiarism. But then it is in the interest of IFOA to seek a solution that works for everyone.

Below is from SOA site - for information.

https://www.soa.org/programs/covid-19/faq-edu-covid-19/#move-cbt

What are the special arrangements for LTAM and QFIQF?

These exams have been identified as exceptions needing special arrangements for computer based testing due to infrastructure requirements to securely capture unique hand-written calculations, figures and graphs. Until an appropriate mechanism can be implemented for these exams, the following assessment methods will be used.

The Long-Term Actuarial Mathematics (LTAM) Exam [CM1 and CS2 of IFOA] will be run as a traditional paper and pencil exam at Prometric locations.

Why will a common sense approach not work for everyone is my only point?
 
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When i was sitting exams in exam halls, i didn't have the option of word - was that fair?

You talk about the SOA - what if there isn't a Prometric location near where you live - then are you going to be force to miss the exam?

Large number's of people are still passing CS1, CS2, CM1, CM2 How can they pass it, what have them done differently to adapt?
It's great saying students aren't happy etc, but when you have hundreds passing this exams then you lose the argument that it's not fair - as other have adapted to the situation.
 
"When i was sitting exams in exam halls, i didn't have the option of word - was that fair?"
Now the world is your oyster!
 
I personally think for September 2021 sitting, what matters most is once they determine a format, they stick to it and be clear on the rules. The last thing I want is they change the exam format at last minute.

Which format is better should be discussed for future sittings, not for the September 2021 one that most people have been preparing for for months, with the assumption that it would be online as stated on the website.
 
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