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Impact of splitting ST3 into ST7 & ST8

P

PittaPan

Member
Hi,

I've just read the latest 2010 exam change: see last page on http://www.actuaries.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/129226/EdNoticeboard_200804.pdf While it's far off still, by the time I get to doing the ST papers it will probably be relevent to me.

What worries me is that I plan to study ST3 in 2009. If I pass it in time to take SA3 in 2010, it seems that I have to go back and do extra studying to cover everything in ST7 and ST8 first? But since once you have passed ST3 you cannot sit ST7 or ST8 as your 2nd ST paper, I'd still have to study another ST paper anyway. So isn't that tantamount to having to do an extra ST paper's worth of study overall?

Or what if I sat ST5 (say) in 2009 and passed it but failed ST3. Then along comes 2010, and I have to sit both ST7 and ST8 before taking SA3?!

Also, how can they say that from April 2010, SA3 will be based on having taken ST7 & ST8 beforehand, when April 2010 is the 1st session you can sit for ST & ST8?
 
Sounds like a great idea. ST3 is wholly inadequate to prepare actuaries to work in capital modelling or to do pricing properly using methods like marginal cost of capital etc.

Do many student actuaries actually know what economic capital really is, how to measure it, how to allocate capital back to different lines of business etc...

The CAS exams in the US cover all of this, so it's about time we caught up a bit!
 
I loved it when they said you can discount your pass in ST3 and then do ST7 and ST8. Wow, what a great idea! Don't we all just love redoing subjects that we have already passed!

I am a bit worried that we are creating actuaries that are too specialist in their particular field. It's already possible to study Investments only at ST level, now you can study GI only as well. The worst is that you need both ST7 and ST8 for SA3. This means that if you work in GI you basically have no choice in your selection of subjects at all. Good luck if you ever wanna get out of GI!
 
Isn't that why they've brought back the associate status and those who take it can call themselves actuaries with their blessing? You don't need to start into specialist categories until you're clear where you want to go with your career?
 
the worst of both worlds?

Gareth said:
Sounds like a great idea. ST3 is wholly inadequate to prepare actuaries to work in capital modelling or to do pricing properly using methods like marginal cost of capital etc.

Do many student actuaries actually know what economic capital really is, how to measure it, how to allocate capital back to different lines of business etc...

The CAS exams in the US cover all of this, so it's about time we caught up a bit!
Click to expand...

I don't have any problem with the idea of breaking ST3 into 2, but it's the way they are bringing it in (and the immediate effect on the SA paper) which concerns me.

On the one hand if you get ST3 prior to the split, then you can't take ST7 or ST8 on their own 2010 onwards, because there is too much overlap. On the other hand, if you want to sit SA3 (2010 onwards) having only passed ST3 (prior to 2010), then they advise you to "familiarise yourself" with ST7 and ST8 because ST3 will not have been enough! The worst of both worlds!
 
Erik said:
This means that if you work in GI you basically have no choice in your selection of subjects at all. Good luck if you ever wanna get out of GI!
Click to expand...

How many would want to get out of GI?

Spit of ST3 into 2 subjects is a good idea.
As for the problem of having to study ST7 and ST8 for SA3 . . . well, look at the positives. SA3 is a monster as it is now. They can ask anything in ST3 or with the slightest link to GI (so anything!!). In 2010 i reckon the SA3 papers will be based on ST7 and ST8 material, so a much smaller subject!!
 
Pitta Pan, I'm in the same situation as you and im pretty ****** off about the whole thing!

I think I might sit st3 and sa3 in april 09. This tactic is becoming more common with people in my office because there is so much overlap between the subjects. This will also give me a spare sitting (sept 09) if i need to resit either of them. And if worst comes the worst and i fail st3 twice then i would just do st7 and 8 !

What do you think your strategy will be?
 
I'm wondering if anyone else is in the same situation as me. I have completed all my CTs and currently planning to take CA1 in April. My problem is that I would ideally be wanting to take an ST in this summer sitting but if i take ST3 I would then need to take the 2 new STs to prepare for the SA. it would also seem an unbearable workload to take ST3 with SA3 in the hope of passing both in September.

It leads me to be very angry as any ST I take in September will actually be useless. Which basically means not taking any exams in the september sitting.

Is anyone else in the same situation as me? I'm planning to write to the institute about this as it seems silly that there is no plan in place for people like myself. So if any one else is in this situation, please let me know and I'll include you in my letter.
 
Hi
the link about the change no longer seems to work..does anyone have a new link to read about the split between ST3 into ST7 and ST8?
Can we still do ST3 in 2010, 2011 (and so on)...but we cannot do ST7 or ST8 if we have already done ST3?
 
ST7 & ST8 will be replacing ST3 so ST3 will not be available from 2010 onwards.
 
Thanks Helen83!
are u planning to sit ST3 or have u done it already?
 
I'm in the same boat really. I'm doing CA1 in April. I work in GI and was originally considering doing ST3 and maybe CA3 in September. Another option would be maybe trying to get ST3 and SA3 in September before the split. I'm not certain if this is too much to do in the September sitting. Has anyone any opinions?
 
Not the person to ask but

...if I felt I was putting in the work then I would go for ST3 and SA3 (assuming a big enough gap between exams). However as I am not taking SA3 this year and possibly for ever unless the new syllabus is interesting or someone pays me to do so, perhaps I am not the best person to ask until I become enthused again.
However, what are the implications for your finances and study leave if you pass or fail? This needs to be the main motivator especially in the current financial climate.
 
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