I need some advice.

[blackeyedboy]

Hello everyone, I am currently just about to begin my 2nd year in biochemistry at university. I have Higher Maths (scotland) at A.

I am thinking of continuing my degree but also when I graduate, apply for actuarial jobs too. I cannot choose between a career in biochemistry and actuary. I have considered both for months and months.

Most companies will want a numerate degree however I have emailed some and they said that biochemistry is fine. However, I must do some additional math work.

Here are my options:

1. Do maths modules at open university. Not a full degree, but modules that are relevant and will help me during the exams.

2. Do the Acted statspack. This is for people with no statistics background I think. And also do the Acted Foundation course. Has anyone done this? I feel it may be too advanced.

3. Do 1&2.

What woul you guys recommend?

 

[mattt78]

i'd expect most actuarial employers to be fine with your degree if you can demonstrate some commitment to persuing an actuarial career and that you've taken steps to fill any gaps in your maths knowledge whilst still studying for your biochemistry degree.

I think the gaps are probably smaller than you'd think. I studied physics and maths at uni, but didn't cover any stats at all at A-level or degree level, but still managed to jump straight in to the CT exams without too much trouble (although getting the stats pack would probably have been a good idea). Some familiarity with differentiation and integration (integration by parts, product rule etc) will also be needed, but i'd assume that's covered at a-level.

So I'd suggest getting the stats pack as a first step, and I think you'll find that you're just the sort of person it is intended for, so it should be a great help. Maybe you could even consider taking one or two of the CT exams before you leave uni (the october sitting might be good timing if you can study in your summer holidays). I think potential actuarial employers would be more impressed by that than some OU study, and it would really show some tangiable commitment to an actuarial career.

Or just switch to an actuarial science degree!

 

[blackeyedboy]

Thanks mattt.

Since you done math and physics and university, what percentage of this do you use for the exams?

Say I studied a degree in mathematics. What percentage of the stuff I learned would I actually use in the exams?

 

[mattt78]

maths degrees

much less than you'd expect I think. Maybe 2%. From my experience very little of the core maths modules studied at uni would be relevant - apart from a bit of calculus, but you will probably have covered enough of that at a-level anyway, (and in my case i'd forgotten it all by the time I started studying the actuarial exams anyway).

However, there way well be one or two or three modules you can choose that would be very relevant - statistics / actuarial science / accounting/ economics etc. So it will depend on the options available at your university, and how many options you can choose etc. (Often you can get exemptions from some of the early actuarial exams (the eight 'core technical' exams) if you've passed a similar course at uni). But I wouldn't worry too much about this - if you've studied a bit of stats (e.g. worked through the stats pack) and brush up on your calculus, i'd say you be on a equal footing with most other people starting the exams.

Unless your university offers the ability to choose alot of relevant modules from a maths degree, I don't think there would be alot of benefit in changing degree course to a traditional maths degree to be honest (although it may fit employers expectations a bit better).

 

[blackeyedboy]

Thanks matt, I really appreciate the help.

How hard would you say the math in the CTs are compared to A level?

 

[mattt78]

maths degrees

difficult to say really, its a long time since i did a-levels, but I think most people who can get an A at A-level without a huge amount of effort will be ok with the maths in the actuarial exams.

Some of the actuarial maths is harder of course, but nothing a bright student with a good maths brain shouldn't be able to do with some hard work and determination.

 

[bystander]

What might be impressive to an employer is if you get some experience in an insurance/pension office in the vacations. It doesn't need to be paid. Even if you got just a weeks work experience it will show commitment.

I don't think switching degrees is a good idea. Just make sure fundamentals like basic stats and pure maths is fine.... Lots of integration for example crops up in CT courses.

Wider skills like great XL skills and Access knowledge can also look good as these can be used in the office on day 1.

It may be a lot on top of the degree, but you can do one exam without being a member of the profession - financial maths. That could be worth thinking about because it gives a taster to the professional distance learning that you would face if you go the actuarial route.

 

[learner]

As a chemistry graduate myself, I would say a chemistry degree is not ideally suited to lead into actuarial work, as it generally involves only one course in mathematics. People talk about filling in gaps in one's mathematical knowledge, but one should remember that many actuarial students have mathematics degrees. They will probably have covered all of the required knowledge at some time. Many other students have physics or engineering degrees, and will probably have done several mathematics courses going beyond 1st year level. They too will not be too worried about the level of maths in the CT examinations. You could switch to a chemistry degree, and could then do more physical and theoretical chemistry, but you would still have this difficulty. If you were to switch to a mathematics, physics, or actuarial science degree, however, you would probably have to repeat the first year.

Doing any maths such as the Acted Stats Pack or Foundation course, would help. However these, on their own, would not guarantee that you would stand out as a candidate as far as employers are concerned. Passing some of the CT examinations could also help. One option would be to register for one or more Open University mathematics units.

I think that two books are also worth mentioning: Mathematical Techniques: an introduction for the engineering, physical, and mathematical sciences, 4th edition, by D.W. Jordan and P. Smith, and Mathematical Methods for Physics and Engineering, 3rd edition, by K.F. Riley, M.P. Hobson and S.J. Bence. They are intended to cover the applied mathematical techniques used at university for a wide range of physical sciences problems. Jordan and Smith provides a comprehensive treatment of the mathematical methods used in the actuarial examinations, and much else besides, at a similar level to the actuarial examinations. Riley, Hobson and Bence is aimed at physics students and goes beyond this, if you want to apply these methods to real world problems. For example, the CT4 examination uses differential equations, and the ActEd study materials prepare you for this, but do not cover the full range of differential equations in general. Jordan and Smith covers them, beginning from dy/dx – 3x = 0, at a level similar to the actuarial examinations but covering much more ground. Riley, Hobson and Bence devotes several chapters to various methods of solution of ordinary and partial differential equations.

Getting relevant work experience is also very useful. It will be between you and the actuarial employers what you need to do and in what order.

 

[mattt78]

maths degrees

I agree some reading around the maths subjects is going to be helpful, and some work experience if possible.

But its easy for non-maths graduates to assume that maths graduates have a big advantage, and I really don't think that's the case.

Most of the more complicated maths covered in the CTs is in proofs, and background material, which I invariably skipped through to get to the important parts which are actually examinabe. You do definitely need some understanding of calculus (at most 1st year undergrad standard, and maybe not much more than a good A grade A-level standard), and some stats experience is also helpful, but beyond that I don't think a maths degree is of much use. I don't think mine (maths & physics) was anyway. Its much more about having a brain with an aptitude for maths than a brain with maths knoweldge i'd say.

The only thing that would have helped is to either take an actuarial science degree, or seek out some optional modules that might get me an exemption from a CT exam.

You can look at the syllabuses of the CT exams on the actuarial institute web site, which might give you an idea of some of the subject areas that are covered, but the asset pack will probably be the best guide to the maths required.

 

[Approximately]

Thanks matt, I really appreciate the help.

How hard would you say the math in the CTs are compared to A level?

CTs start out pretty similar, especially if you did further maths (so are comfortable with some differential equations and matrices), but the later ones are much harder. I did an engineering degree, heavy on the maths options to get my grades up, and found CT8 maths tricky (though admittedly the earlier ones were ok).

 

[DevonMatthews]

If you studied a Maths degree in statistics/probability theory you will pretty much have covered CT3, and the majority of CT4,6 and 8.

 

[blackeyedboy]

As a chemistry graduate myself, I would say a chemistry degree is not ideally suited to lead into actuarial work, as it generally involves only one course in mathematics.

Thanks learner for your very long post and also everyone else who has replied.

Leaner, did you get a job as an actuarial trainee after your degree?

 

[learner]

blackeyedboy, I got a job in accountancy after my degree, which was some time ago, because actuarial work was very obscure and I knew next to nothing about it, such as that it involved maths.

Neither the university careers service nor the chemistry department careers lecture ever mentioned actuarial work. They mentioned chemistry research, banking and accountancy. However, more recently I found out about actuarial work and since then I have been seeking to get in. Hopefully, it will not be too much longer. I probably should have done a physics degree as well.

The obvious advantage of doing a degree relevant to actuarial work, if this is what you are looking for, is that employers prefer to recruit trainees with more mathematical knowledge, other things being equal. The less obvious advantage is that you will be prepared for actuarial work as one of the potential destinations for your degree, informed about it and about opportunities to get into it. This will not happen to the same extent if your degree is not considered relevant.

 

[Cardano]

The obvious advantage of doing a degree relevant to actuarial work, if this is what you are looking for, is that employers prefer to recruit trainees with more mathematical knowledge, other things being equal.

Mathematics can get you in a whole bunch of trouble in finance. The banks employed no end of reasonably competent mathematicians and they have already lost more money than banking had ever made in the history of industrial capitalism and the bulk of their losses are yet to come.

Learner as an aside I am a chemistry graduate and a chemistry PhD and a ex university chemistry lecturer and I regard some of your views on the strengths and weaknesses of chemistry graduates as a little naive.