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Gbob1
Member
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How to boost my application as a non-mathematics student (music degree)?
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jrpfinch
Member
Check your private messages.
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Calum
Member
The degree certainly doesn't help: when you're doing an initial sort of 100+ CVs and you have dozens of applicants studying actuarial science, stats, or numerical degrees, it's easy to see how a musician could end up in the rejected bucket from the initial screening. At that point, there is no feedback to give, beyond "we looked at your application for a good fifteen seconds and rejected it".
What they're looking for is certainty about your maths skills and (to be honest) even an A at A-level doesn't provide comfort in that regard these days. I'm not sure how much a few more CT passes would help, and it could well be a distraction.
In terms of internships, it may well be worth phoning up HR departments before your application lands with them to talk through the basics of it - that may be enough to get you out of the immediately rejected pile. Also, don't be afraid to consider other work in financial services - *any* office experience is a strong plus. And experience of the sharp end of client services is no bad thing either!
In terms of your overall strategy, I'm not sure what I'd do. If all goes well, you may end up with a job offer through internships.
If not, you either apply for graduate entry and cross your fingers, or undertake further study.
Graduate entry has the problem, again, that many firms specify a numerical degree, and again you will get binned at the initial screening stage.
Further study has the problem that it takes a lot longer. However, if you really want to do it, one suggestion would be to take a year out and find a role somewhere in financial services. Take the OU's Diploma in maths (I think with A-level you will only need to do the level 2 courses, which you can cover in a year). Go back to uni, have a crack at graduate entry. If you don't get in at this point, that (I would have thought) will be sufficient to get you on a postgraduate actuarial course.
What they're looking for is certainty about your maths skills and (to be honest) even an A at A-level doesn't provide comfort in that regard these days. I'm not sure how much a few more CT passes would help, and it could well be a distraction.
In terms of internships, it may well be worth phoning up HR departments before your application lands with them to talk through the basics of it - that may be enough to get you out of the immediately rejected pile. Also, don't be afraid to consider other work in financial services - *any* office experience is a strong plus. And experience of the sharp end of client services is no bad thing either!
In terms of your overall strategy, I'm not sure what I'd do. If all goes well, you may end up with a job offer through internships.
If not, you either apply for graduate entry and cross your fingers, or undertake further study.
Graduate entry has the problem, again, that many firms specify a numerical degree, and again you will get binned at the initial screening stage.
Further study has the problem that it takes a lot longer. However, if you really want to do it, one suggestion would be to take a year out and find a role somewhere in financial services. Take the OU's Diploma in maths (I think with A-level you will only need to do the level 2 courses, which you can cover in a year). Go back to uni, have a crack at graduate entry. If you don't get in at this point, that (I would have thought) will be sufficient to get you on a postgraduate actuarial course.
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bystander
Member
The above is very sound advice about alternative routes. I agree more exams without experience isn't always a good thing.
Have you tried re-ording your qualifications so that you have CT1 first backed up by your Al levels, the say currently studying music so music isn't their first sight?
Don't know where you are stufying but have you tried to get work experience (unpaid) in an actuarial dept? Even if its 2 weeks it can help and shows you are genuine. Then you could also join a regional actuarial society but make sure you go to a presentation.
Look at what you are saying about your strengths. Eg what office related skills have you got eg proficiency in Microsoft Office, any presenting you've done - eg a recital shows your confidence. Have you leadership skills eg been a secretary or something to a uni society? All these things count.
Smaller companies are more prepared to look at unusual cases so don't stick with the big names. Really 8 isn't a lot so don't be disappointed.
If you want it you'll need perseverance both in getting the role and making it thru' the exams.
Have you tried re-ording your qualifications so that you have CT1 first backed up by your Al levels, the say currently studying music so music isn't their first sight?
Don't know where you are stufying but have you tried to get work experience (unpaid) in an actuarial dept? Even if its 2 weeks it can help and shows you are genuine. Then you could also join a regional actuarial society but make sure you go to a presentation.
Look at what you are saying about your strengths. Eg what office related skills have you got eg proficiency in Microsoft Office, any presenting you've done - eg a recital shows your confidence. Have you leadership skills eg been a secretary or something to a uni society? All these things count.
Smaller companies are more prepared to look at unusual cases so don't stick with the big names. Really 8 isn't a lot so don't be disappointed.
If you want it you'll need perseverance both in getting the role and making it thru' the exams.
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DevonMatthews
Member
Write in your CV that you only write musical compositions with reference to fibonacci numbers
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Gbob1
Member
I was thinking of only doing a CT3 exam next, in order to further substantiate my mathematical ability. Surely, to an employer, it'd be a plus to see someone with a non-mathematical degree already have a CT1 and CT3 pass (i.e. the mathematical modules), especially if it's self-taught?
I really do think that that should be my next step, along with try to get work experience. Does anyone see this as a bad idea/waste of time?
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Calum
Member
My point is basically this: yes, having the pass can only be beneficial (there is a point where employers would start to get worried about the number of exam passes v. your experience, but that's not an issue here).
However, it is (very) expensive and time consuming (and you might fail!) and I suspect you might get more value out of other activities.
Another thought that occurs to me is to speak to people - careers advisers, supervisors, etc - at your university. It's not impossible you may be able to pick up a stats course or something of the sort.
However, it is (very) expensive and time consuming (and you might fail!) and I suspect you might get more value out of other activities.
Another thought that occurs to me is to speak to people - careers advisers, supervisors, etc - at your university. It's not impossible you may be able to pick up a stats course or something of the sort.
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barnie
Member
Can you opt to do some "maths" modules as part of your degree? I have a friend who got a degree in Music and Maths!
There seem to be a lot of people on these forums doing CTs off their own back to help get an actuarial job but like a former poster said i think employers are a bit wary of people with loads of passes but no experience....
Things which i think helped me get a actuarial job (with no prior CTs and from a biology background!) were
1, go along to the career fair uni events - get talking to the people from the actuarial firms there. Especially the smaller ones, get talking to the people! If any firms are holding any evening presentation and chat type events make sure you go to those! And make sure you fill in teh attendance list - they are watching you and if you make a good impression your name will be watched for when applications start coming in!
2, Make sure you include a covering letter with your application! And make sure you say more than, I really want to be an actuary, please find attached my application! It is the best place to sell yourself and get your application noticed.
3, Apply early! Deadlines for grad jobs may be mid/late nov but firms can start recruiting as soon as they have enough good applicants they want to interview!
4, Sounds like you are already getting people to review your applications which is definitely good but remember a professor (of music??) may be looking for something very different to an actuarial firm!
Are you starting your final year in Sept? Start applying then for grad jobs - and don't be put off from applying to companies who have previously rejected - rewrite your application and try again!
Good luck!
There seem to be a lot of people on these forums doing CTs off their own back to help get an actuarial job but like a former poster said i think employers are a bit wary of people with loads of passes but no experience....
Things which i think helped me get a actuarial job (with no prior CTs and from a biology background!) were
1, go along to the career fair uni events - get talking to the people from the actuarial firms there. Especially the smaller ones, get talking to the people! If any firms are holding any evening presentation and chat type events make sure you go to those! And make sure you fill in teh attendance list - they are watching you and if you make a good impression your name will be watched for when applications start coming in!
2, Make sure you include a covering letter with your application! And make sure you say more than, I really want to be an actuary, please find attached my application! It is the best place to sell yourself and get your application noticed.
3, Apply early! Deadlines for grad jobs may be mid/late nov but firms can start recruiting as soon as they have enough good applicants they want to interview!
4, Sounds like you are already getting people to review your applications which is definitely good but remember a professor (of music??) may be looking for something very different to an actuarial firm!
Are you starting your final year in Sept? Start applying then for grad jobs - and don't be put off from applying to companies who have previously rejected - rewrite your application and try again!
Good luck!
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bystander
Member
Doing the one extra exam won't hurt but do you realise you have to be a member of the profession to do it? That means paying the joining fee and subscription.
And if you study that as well as doing finals you could come unstuck. You don't want to jeopardise the degree class you come out with.
Getting feedback from any job interview when rejected is similarly hard so get used to it.
I still feel you need to revisit how you express your strengths in a work type environment can make all the difference drawing particularly on extra curricular activities. Its a sad fact that these days there are lots of people out there with good A and GCSEs but its more the person they are interested in on the grounds that you can teach subject knowledge but if your personality is a misfit thats really hard to change.
And if you study that as well as doing finals you could come unstuck. You don't want to jeopardise the degree class you come out with.
Getting feedback from any job interview when rejected is similarly hard so get used to it.
I still feel you need to revisit how you express your strengths in a work type environment can make all the difference drawing particularly on extra curricular activities. Its a sad fact that these days there are lots of people out there with good A and GCSEs but its more the person they are interested in on the grounds that you can teach subject knowledge but if your personality is a misfit thats really hard to change.
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Calum
Member
The other option I'm currently thinking about is taking a PGdip with University of Kent. I e-mailed them to see if I am eligible to get onto the course and they said that I definitely was. The only thing is, I'm not so sure if I want to go to university in Kent and also the new 8000-pound school fees. The course is certified by the actuarial profession, and if I get over 65 per cent in the exams I can get exemptions from CTs. Obviously 8000 pounds is a major rip off...
Shop around if you are considering the postgrad route. There are quite a few courses in this area now and I imagine the entry requirements are broadly similar. Although the CT exemptions are obviously a major attraction of these courses, it's not necessary to focus on courses that cover all eight.
The course fee is actually pretty reasonable - yes, the marginal cost of a student's place in a lecture hall of 50+ students is pretty low, but universities have hgih costs and few other sources of incomes. Your undergrad degree is just as expensive, but the cost is disguised by subsidy.
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bystander
Member
Be careful. Lots of employers are moving against taking post grads with the diploma and loads of exemptions because they are worried about the theory versus no practical experience problem.
Either that or they select them and sponsor them to go that route. Again its tough to get that sponsorship.
Talk to some recruitment consultants in the profession to see if they have ideas. You probably need to focus on smaller companies rather than the big names.
Either that or they select them and sponsor them to go that route. Again its tough to get that sponsorship.
Talk to some recruitment consultants in the profession to see if they have ideas. You probably need to focus on smaller companies rather than the big names.
Have you tried smaller companies? The big four tend seem to just take the cream and not delve too deep as they get so many applicants they can do this) whereas the smaller companies get less applications and so look at the CVs deeper.
I would second the suggestion of putting your CT1 first (and congratualations on passing that by the way!) on your CV. And put it first in your covering letter - I've kept my mathematics ability up to date by...and have recently funded and passed my CT1 exam...
But it has been a long time since I applied for a job so forgive me if I'm out-of-date on some aspects of the process!
I would second the suggestion of putting your CT1 first (and congratualations on passing that by the way!) on your CV. And put it first in your covering letter - I've kept my mathematics ability up to date by...and have recently funded and passed my CT1 exam...
But it has been a long time since I applied for a job so forgive me if I'm out-of-date on some aspects of the process!