Fake actuary CVs?

[scarlets]

Recently I have come across the second person in my career who I suspect of having a fake actuarial CV.

Many years ago, my first suspect had terrible numeracy skills and didn't even know what a surrender value was. This despite holding a CV apparently showing many years experience of working in actuarial here and abroad and passing a few exams.

My second suspect is along the same lines. It's just too hard to believe this person's CV is genuine given the lack of knowledge & understanding implied by the questions this person asks, the appalling level of numeracy & PC skills, and continued lack of understanding of some very easy "follow these instructions" work that has been explained to this individual numerous times.

The two things these individuals have in common is that they are from abroad and they are both temporary contractors.

Remember that sometimes people get contract jobs based on just a telephone interview (easy to get someone else to take that one for you remember) or just on the basis of a good CV and "let's just see how they get on".

How can one set about reporting these people? If one reports to HR and gets it wrong then this could backfire on the complainant.

However, given how difficult it is to get opportunities in actuary and then qualify as an actuary, it surely is in all our interests to weed out anyone who fakes it and denies genuine people a chance.

 

[CA2 student]

You could check the Actuarial Directory and exam pass lists? Presumably other countries have similar information on their websites. Try googling them.

 

[scarlets]

I did not find this person in the actuarial directory. Then again, nor did I find many other genuine people I know who have given up the exams.

 

[sonnyshook]

Lying on your CV and proceeding to attain monetary gain through employment is fraud i.e a criminal offence...although lying on your CV per se is not a criminal offence. And people have been known to receive custodial sentences for obtaining money (getting a job and receiving a salary) under false pretences vis-a-vis lying on their CVs!

 

[scaron]

I’m curious as to how you managed to get hold of their CV's? Perhaps you are their supervisor/ senior colleague/ manager, in which case sack them for incompetence! If you are not and you have somehow managed, by hook or by crook,to obtain and peruse their confidential employee details/ records then be careful when approaching HR to report them. If the “suspect” is indeed a bona fide actuarial professional such a report may backfire in more ways than one.

You also mention that the two “suspects” are both from abroad. This is an interesting detail. Given that you sense that this current "suspect" is not truthful in the CV they put forward it may be the case that they are also not truthful about their residency status. Maybe they are in fact illegal immigrants from a ring of illegals whose purpose it is to milk this profession for all its worth. Perhaps you should contact immigration to report them, in fact why not alert the home office. Whistleblowing is part and parcel of our profession. There should be more of you up and down this country in firms big and small protecting our profession from imposters from within and without. Whatever you do scarlets I wish you good luck in your crusade to weed out the fakers.

 

[sammo]

hahahaha

I’m curious as to how you managed to get hold of their CV's? Perhaps you are their supervisor/ senior colleague/ manager, in which case sack them for incompetence! If you are not and you have somehow managed, by hook or by crook,to obtain and peruse their confidential employee details/ records then be careful when approaching HR to report them. If the “suspect” is indeed a bona fide actuarial professional such a report may backfire in more ways than one.

You also mention that the two “suspects” are both from abroad. This is an interesting detail. Given that you sense that this current "suspect" is not truthful in the CV they put forward it may be the case that they are also not truthful about their residency status. Maybe they are in fact illegal immigrants from a ring of illegals whose purpose it is to milk this profession for all its worth. Perhaps you should contact immigration to report them, in fact why not alert the home office. Whistleblowing is part and parcel of our profession. There should be more of you up and down this country in firms big and small protecting our profession from imposters from within and without. Whatever you do scarlets I wish you good luck in your crusade to weed out the fakers.

dont get me wrong, i believe it is a privilege to be a member of this profession and no one can by pass exams with a forged cv and fake passes but i feel you are taking this too far- I can't see how someone being suspected of doctoring a CV deserves a call from immigration, let the institute do what the institute does and let immigration do their job in weeding out illegals,

for professional terms, a persons nationality/residency is irrelevant-and the latter part of your argument is sowing seeds for the wrong conversations in this multicultural forum that will do no one any good...

as for Scarlets-well done, but i think the responses you will get from this site are based on personal opinions rather than facts and most people here havent spent much time in the profession relative to the older heads, look around the institute site and i'm sure you will get leads from there.


ammmmmmoooo

 

[sonnyshook]

I agree with Sammo. I think Scaron's suggestions are a tad excessive. My comments earlier are academic and were only to inform the actuarial community. Scarlets if you are left with no options you should just raise your complaint (about the apparent incompetence) with HR or the company supplying the contractors. Exercise caution by trying not to insinuate anything...just state the facts. Also saying nothing is sometimes best..there are better things to worry about..and work is just one dimension of life

 

[scarlets]

One does not need to obtain a copy of a CV to deduce that something is not quite right.

I doubt that actuaries nowadays are recruiting people with no understanding of anything actuarial or basic insurance concepts, appalling numeracy skills, and so on.

 

[scarlets]

Also saying nothing is sometimes best..there are better things to worry about..and work is just one dimension of life

Yes, that is a plausible option. As with my first 'suspect' many years ago, this person was found out to be incompetent when the quality and quantity of work was checked by actuaries. They can only bluff so much and it does catch up with them.

 

[scarlets]

for professional terms, a persons nationality/residency is irrelevant-and the latter part of your argument is sowing seeds for the wrong conversations in this multicultural forum that will do no one any good...

It's just not correct to declare nationality/residency as irrelevant, stop trying to inject unnecessary political correctness here to silence a legitimate debate.

Different countries have differing actuarial standards as is widely accepted. Furthemore, some people need work permits to work in the UK.

Do UK employers really verify the CVs and the claims on them I wonder; I'd imagine it's very hard to do. Remember in the contract market there may be more leniency as they can try people out on the job and get rid of them quickly.

 

[sammo]

It's just not correct to declare nationality/residency as irrelevant, stop trying to inject unnecessary political correctness here to silence a legitimate debate.

Different countries have differing actuarial standards as is widely accepted. Furthemore, some people need work permits to work in the UK.

Do UK employers really verify the CVs and the claims on them I wonder; I'd imagine it's very hard to do. Remember in the contract market there may be more leniency as they can try people out on the job and get rid of them quickly.

my argument is not trying to inject political correctness, I have seen many other forums that have been reduced to places of constant xenophobia and racism which all stemmed from someone trying to raise a simple plausible point/argument such as yours. No one here can afford this site being reduced to that because we are part of the Institutes' face especially nowadays with people relying on the web for information. We are members of a profession not a country, our profession has influences much farther than the UK/EU borders and comments here simply need to recognise that.

As far as I am aware, non EU residents have to get work permits which are given subject to meeting the home office's minimum requirements. I think employers do checks too for the reputation of their firms and the profession.

In the event that they are exposed that they are not actuaries/forged their CVs and they are non EU immigrants-then border agency need to be notified of the development.

I really hope you expose the real truth behind it all, if they are not actuaries-they need to be punished for it. Everything else is someone else's job not the profession's nor from what I can see here, any of us forumites

good Saturday to you all

 

[scaron]

One does not need to obtain a copy of a CV to deduce that something is not quite right.

But perhaps one does need to obtain a copy of a CV if one is to make the claim, in the public domain, that a work colleague has a fake “actuarial CV”. Otherwise we could all start running around, in a witch hunt fashion, claiming that our senior colleagues are not fit for purpose or have faked their actuarial credentials. Some people could do this out of sheer jealousy over their senior colleague’s salary or position or it could be motivated by any other personal issues.

I wonder what is motivating you to weed out the fakers.

 

[scarlets]

I wonder what is motivating you to weed out the fakers.

I have already explained this.

I also wonder what is motivating you to discourage people from being concerned and take action about possible fakers?

 

[scaron]

My motives are entirely altruistic.

In my opinion team spirit is important and conducive to a good working environment and that people who are busy sniffing about trying to undermine their colleagues is generally not good for morale. I think that unless you’re in a managerial/supervisory capacity you’ve really no right commenting on your colleagues performance and ultimately insinuating that they’ve doctored their CVs.

I think that those considering following your example are better served trying to do their jobs as best as they can and possibly aiding and guiding their new colleagues as opposed to playing the role of inspector Clouseau and trying to hunt down the so called fakers.

 

[scarlets]

No, a faker would not aid teamwork or team morale at all. A faker would frustrate colleagues with errors and lack of understanding which could disrepute the whole team. Seems you think colleagues should cover for a faker and not comment or query why someone performs so incompetently. Again, must wonder why you are suggesting what you are and I can't help but feel I've hit a nerve here.

I won't apologise for saying I have no time for dishonest fraudsters, as they are parasites who are denying genuine people a chance.

 

[scaron]

I won't apologise for saying I have no time for dishonest fraudsters, as they are parasites who are denying genuine people a chance.

Whoa there tiger. No one is telling you to apologise for anything. There really is no need for anyone to get so worked up about these so called fraudsters and parasites. I very much doubt that there are that many of them about!

It could just be the case that these two colleagues of yours, who you mention are temporary contractors and both come from abroad, were out of the industry for a few years and were, shall we say, a bit rusty. Surely you know what that must be like? It’s possible that I’m just being too generous here but I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse them of fraudulent activity especially when that is the job of those that hired them to check. Are we to now look over the shoulders of HR or recruiting managers to ensure that they are doing their jobs? Are we to scream incompetence whenever we don’t like their choice of new employees?

You should know that even if your fellow co-workers performance is below par it’s doubtful that their contracts would be extended and so in that way they will certainly be weeded out of your firm if not the profession.

For anyone looking to develop their actuarial careers I would have thought that the advice to be a helpful colleague and to focus on doing their job as best as they could is certainly better than sending them off on a fool’s errand to weed out the so called “fakers”. I personally prefer a working environment where people are trying to help others rather than one in which there are one or two wannabe gestapo officers looking at co-workers who are finding their feet and possibly coming from abroad as being fraudsters. That’s just my point of view of course.

 

[scarlets]

scaron: that is just propping up fakers, keeping them faking for longer, carrying them on your back. I agree though that in time they will be found out but if you keep on covering for them...

 

[Java Jive]

scarlets, could it happen that your colleagues just are not understanding the specifics of the UK market? Especially if you are working at some weird place (like Lloyds).

 

[scarlets]

scarlets, could it happen that your colleagues just are not understanding the specifics of the UK market? Especially if you are working at some weird place (like Lloyds).

No it's not about that.

The ones I'm on about would fail a numeracy test.

 

[Lewin]

actually scarlets,its not always that they have fake papers or whatever.
some people are lazy at work,poorly motivated,disorganised etc
i work in gi and i have come across such people,dont forget that one of your responsibilities is to carry their weight if necessary and also improve them as much as you can

some people also have no confidence and it can really affect your work