Career change: Expertise from gurus needed

Hi there,

First of all I must say, this forum is excellent. Now coming to my query:

I am an IT professional with 6 years of experience out of which 3 years I have been working for a reinsurance company. Recently (6 months back) I managed to change my department to the business side (as IT for me was a bit dry) where I came to know about being an actuary. I was surprised to know that such kind of thing exists. I am too much interested in this profession but I have some doubts for which I need your expertise:

1) Being 30 years of age and married, do you think it is manageable from time (study) point of view?

2) I did Maths for 4 semesters in my engineering career that was 10 years back. what level is needed to be an actuary. Do I go in for FAC (Foundation Acted course) and stats pack? Does it cover everything?

3) Say in 5 years at age of 35 I am done being an actuary. What Salary can I expect in UK / Europe. Can I leverage on my 6 years of IT experience and say 6 years of business experience that I would be gaining while I am giving exams? Good thing is I am already in an insurance sector so I can leverage on this and do not have to search for a new employer in this field.

4) Do I need to be first registered with the institute of actuaries to buy matieral from Acted?

5) If you complete CMP for each subject thoroughly can you pass or you need anyother textbooks.

6) How much on an average study time is required. How many exams are advised to be given at one time?

7) After qualifiying as an actuary say at age of 35 , can you reach a senior level position at age of 40?

Thanks
DG

 

Hello,

(1) Yes it is manageable as long as you are well organised and your family is supportive.

(2) The FAC is just a maths refresher course - it covers everything you need to know in order to be able to learn the more complicated stuff in the exams (which isn't covered in FAC). The Stats pack is similar but based on refreshing statistic skills - or teaching them for the first time.

It is a good idea to use these if you haven't done much maths or stats for a while.

(3) This varies, but I would say in a reinsurance type job and fully qualified you could be looking initially at between £60,000 - £90,000.

You can leverage on your current experience but you will need to switch to an actuarial role before you complete all the exams. Ideally you should switch before you have passed your 5th exam. The sooner you switch the easier it will be for you.

If you pass say all exams then look for an actuarial job, you may find yourself unemployable in this sector.

(4) No - but you do need to register in order to sit the exams.

(5) As far as I know the only exams where extra reading is required is one or two of the later Investment exams. But these are very later subjects and you may opt to select a different exam anyway. Generally, CMP is all you will need - but extra's such as audio cd's, etc can be helpful in the later exams (also sold by acted).

(6) I would advise you to sit two/three exams every sitting initially. Study time varies according to the difficulty of the exam and your own background knowledge. I'd suggets for the ct's you need to study 8-12 hours a week per subject.

(7) Yes you can - but this doesn't mean you will. You will need to be impressive, articulate and capable. It is like any job - if you are good enough you will make it, if not then you won't. Senior positions are awarded based on your performance at work and have little to do with exam success.

Your welcome.

 

Thanks avanbuiten,

1) Reference to your answer to point 3) : As you mentioned it is better to move to an actuarial role beofre 5th exam. Do you think after passing 2-3 exams and with the experience I have I can get a job in a company (if i change my current company) in an actuarial role say in UK/ Europe(Germany). What salary can I expect in this case (2-3 exams passed, 2 years businness experience , 6 years IT experience, out of this total of 8 years experience - 5 years in reinsurance industry)?

2) Secondly I have problems in accessing www.acted.co.uk website specially when I click placing an order form. I see error in the status bar of every page on the website and it is very slow. Can you access it. Do you face the same problems?

Cheers
DG

 

You need to put in up to 10 hours/week for 10-12 weeks before the exams for studying without distractions. Think about whether you could do this.

I think you need actuarial work experience to qualify not just pass the exams. It's easier to learn if you've been working in it for a while as you see the relevance better of all that material you'll have to learn.

I think the other answers you require have already been given or are on the actuaries website. If not, ask away!

 

I actually think this would be extremely difficult. You're really committing yourself to 5 years of study. I'd definitely give it some serious thought if I were you.

 

New answers:

(1) Yes - this shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a good cv and interview well. However, don't expect immediate success. It can take up to 6 months to land your first actuarial job - and that is assuming you're prepared to relocate (hopefully you work in London already)! If you haven't found a job after 6-9 months of trying, chances are you never will! Some people are lucky and land a job very easily - it varies.

Get your cv done for you by a professional cv writing company (cost around £100) and send it out to companies you'd like to work for. Also post your cv on relevant job sites as I know recruitment agents sometimes look at these. Empahsise your work experience as this is your main advantage over younger candidates - try writing examples of things you worked on that show your skills. Don't just list stuff, describe it!

Try to get a 3rd party actuarial recruitment consultant on your side, there are some good agents out there, but not many - some of them won't be interested in helping you as they don't think it's worth their time helping people get their first job, don't let them deter you though (some of them were extremely negative towards me, basically telling me never to call back as I didn't have a suitable background!).

Your age and experience may well give you an advantage over some inexperienced younger candidates. You may have to accept a salary decrease though - for your first position expect to be paid around £27,000 - £32,000.

I know of people who have changed career in their 30's, switching to actuarial. One guy was a secondary school maths teacher, married with young children - he's doing really well now.

If you want to work in another European country then knowing a second language would help you although this isn't mandatory. I have a friend working in Zurich(the country not the company) but he doesn't speak their language.

(2) I can access it fine. The order form is normally downloaded as a pdf.

Generally, it is difficult to put a value on someone and say "you would earn this much". It varies a lot and I am not a consultant. My figures are ball park figures based on what I know and friends in other companies tell me.

My final advice is that you should give this career change a try if you really do want too.
The worst that could happen (failing something really bad) is that you fail all the exams you try and no one interviews you - so you waste maybe 9 months and a few hundred pound, big deal, at least you tried! I think if you are determined enough and you can handle the exams you will find a way. I would only do 2 exams for your first sitting.

Good luck.

 

Don't do it!

Is all I can say...

 

I personally think doing the exams with young kids would be demanding. As for making the change to an actuarial job before a given number of exams, that's just twentysomething angst.

 

5 years might be a bit optimistic. I recall being told that 7 years is the average a couple of years ago.

Some might be able to get away with only using the CMPs, but there is now a huge variety of study aids available. It's all a bit unknown and you have to find what learning methods work best for you. Personally, I'd recommend the core reading, attending tutorials, ASET and examiners reports, and if all else fails, attending exam counselling to find out where you are going wrong, though having a vote on people's favourite methods could be a topic for a separate discusion. Don't let age put you of attending tutorials either, knowing that most others attending will be several years younger than you.

You might find that being married (and having kids later, possibly) focuses the mind on your studies. Don't go into it lightly, though - see if you can get what you think being an actuary represents for you in your current career before you decide to switch. The drop out rate is high (again, I have heard only 1 person in 3 who starts actually completes). You don't want to be wasting years of your life and then stop.

 

5 years is incredibly optimistic. There are a lot of men at my work in their 30's, married with children. They seem to be doing okay - but a few of those have started later because they have a doctorate in maths or economics or something of that sort.

I wouldn't underestimate how tough these exams can be - I'm going on 5 and a half years and I started off supporting my own study (rather than as a trainee where the company pays for your tuition, materials, exams, annual membership and gives you study leave).

That said - I have known people who have qualified in three years flat from scratch - it all depends on how much you are willing to throw yourself into the studying. Apparently a bit of genius helps to.

 

I don't think this is very common but there are actuarial IT jobs out there (i.e. software development jobs done by qualified actuaries). I know my company has some (although all in Zurich).

It might be easier to try to get a IT job working with actuaries and then move across?

 

are you sure you want to move to pure actuarial? it's pretty dull work imho.

im working in reinsurance as a software developer on a DFA product (i used to be pure actuarial). im still doing the exams, but now i can do what i enjoy (programming) and still apply my actuarial skills to develop new models.

 

First of all thanks to all the experts. I truly appreciate the different opinions - some have mentioned not to go for it and some said why not try it.

Personally I never enjoyed programming although I did it for 6 years. I always feel that I am good in communication, management etc. Now since 6 months I have changed my department and I was working on a project delaing with Life and General Insurance which gave an insight into being an underwriter.

I love working with numbers and am considering becoming an underwriter and complement it side by side by giving actuarial exams.

Any further suggestions ?

 

have you considered accounting? its easier and can be just as rewarding.

 

If you want it badly enough, you'll make it work.

Your IT skills should help you.

Contract work using/developing say Prophet (a piece of actuarial software) is very lucrative at the moment. Not helpful now I know, but longer term it shows there is scope to mix/match your talents.

But as everyone tells you, don't underestimate the exams. It is still the exception rather than the rule to pass everything first time.

Good luck.

 

DoubleGun

I did the same 2 years ago..I had 4 years of experience working for a Ibank in their IT department...I think while you are a student it only helps you to do good programming...you can leverage IT experience once you qualify and start managing projects/teams..atleast i think that...but there's whole different skill to learn when you work for Actuarial..but I would say its worth it..apart from being financially rewarding in the long run..it can be very intellectually satisfying as well...

 

Hi Jonbon,

Nice to hear that. This gives lot of encouragement to people like me who are thinking a change in the career. Actually I did lead a team of couple of developers for 2 years and was myself a lead developer. Now on the business side I like it here and want to completely shift from IT, however if in the long run I could use my IT skills then that would be nice. Could you please from your experience say how tough it was for you to go in for an actuaria profession, are you also having a family, how much time did you give for your studies, which exams have you passed so far, any difficulties faced, what do you think aqs a career setp if I get a role of an underwriter (now which is possible in my current company) and side by side give my actuarial exams, Any ideas on CFA -is it better an actuary. Oh my God I think I have aksed flurry of questions. But if you have time I would really appreciate your reply as you are the one who was in the same boat 2 years ago. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks Doublegun

 

thats quite a few questions...phew...see answers-->

Could you please from your experience say how tough it was for you to go in for an actuaria profession >> I got a job fairly easily, but mind you it was at graduate position..had to take a small paycut as I had to start at 25k but made up pretty soon by passing exams..thank god..

are you also having a family >> nope single.

how much time did you give for your studies >> I think it depends upon individuals...some like to study hard and make sure that they pass definitely..some do so much that they pass..i think I am the latter kind..but you definetely have to be dedicated for these exams...one has to be highly self motivated to take these exams..but on passing..it gives great satisfaction...

which exams have you passed so far>> I've got 1 CT, 1ST, 1CA and 1SA to go. so 4 left.

any difficulties faced >> yes, when I failed my first ST, it was hard to take in. Had to keep myself motivated, somehow. Otherwise, work env. is very supportive.

what do you think aqs a career setp if I get a role of an underwriter (now which is possible in my current company) and side by side give my actuarial exams >> I think you should start giving Actuarial exams as soon as possible. As earlier CT exams are more Statistical/Mathematical which I think, with your background, you should find them okay to deal with. I think Actuarial skill is more to deal with numbers so I'm not sure if U/W experience helps. I would jump straight from IT to Actuarial if I've made my mind on it.

Any ideas on CFA -is it better an actuary. >> no ideas on that mate.

overall I think post FIA you have many more options (as recognition is there now in ibanks, Life Ins., GI, Banks, etc) rather being in IT where all you do is programme management and resource allocation after a while.