CA3 - scrap it

Discussion in 'General study / exams' started by mpyan1, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. Dr. Jacoby

    Dr. Jacoby Member

    I sat CA3 in July and am currently awaiting the results. Here are my thoughts.

    I very much benefited from the training prior to the exam. The tutorial was excellent, and the course notes are useful. At work, I now find myself applying a lot of the things I learnt. Formal training in communication for actuaries should, in my opinion, certainly form part of the qualification process.

    However, should there be an exam? I agree with others in this thread who argue that a workshop or another form of training is sufficient. Regardless, if the examiners do stick with having an exam I feel that improvements can be made.

    The exam I sat was a mixed package. Without going into any detail on the content, the written part felt like a good assessment of communication skills; nothing too technical, so it was a real test of structure, phrasing and getting across the key points. However, the presentation was a nightmare. An absurdly long, technical question, to the point that the 2 hours given to prepare the slide pack was a panic-stricken exercise in:

    • Trying to understand what the hell the question wanted
    • Transferring a lot of data from the pdf file to Excel, which had to be manually typed in
    • Deciding on and creating suitable graphs (which in this case, given the volume of data we were supplied with, was not a trivial task)
    • Attempting to apply the things I knew the examiners are looking for despite all of the above.

    There was very little time to properly consider many of the core things that are being tested and that I had learnt from the tutorial and notes, e.g. structure, avoidance of jargon and aesthetics. My presentation ended up not being entirely complete due to the time pressure, and I had to mention this in my script the next day.

    This highlighted the fundamental flaw in having a presentation exam; at work, I would have far longer to prepare it. With this presentation under synthetic conditions, overnight I could see all the mistakes I had made under exam stress. I then had to try to overcome them with what I was going to say. It really didn’t feel like a true test of communication.

    A final point on the communication of the examiners. I am sitting SA3 in October, and have just looked at April's exam as part of my revision. One of the questions was:

    "Mr Rich subsequently decides to underwrite in the London market. Based on its business plan, the regulatory minimum capital requirements have been estimated at £100 million at the end of the first year of operations.

    Describe the factors that should be considered when deciding on the initial capital of RIL."


    The examiner’s report had the following to say:

    Many candidates misinterpreted the question and discussed how capital requirements would be calculated in an ICA / ECA type method. The question was instead about how to decide what capital to actually hold relative to a regulatory minimum. Many candidates wrote significant volumes with some apparent understanding of capital issues yet scored very low marks, potentially failing on this issue.”

    These type of comments occur very frequently in the later exams. Indeed, I misinterpreted this question and I wasn't under exam stress. Surely the examiners must realise that if the majority of students misinterpret their question, then the question has been phrased poorly? This is a classic example of poor communication.

    Their arrogance on this issue really grates with me and is entirely inconsistent with what they try to teach in CA3.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2015
  2. ca3_ache

    ca3_ache Member

    Dr. Jacoby

    I am almost sure I sat the same exam as you!

    Of course, without going into details, the written component was a fair question and, in my opinion, a good test of communication skills. The presentation question was an utter disaster... far too long and loads of possibly useful / possibly useless technical content. I had to reread the question several times to understand what was required as it was far from clear. I also ending up manually entering data into Excel, :/

    I thought I had managed to get a decent presentation together, however, I must have missed a key point or two as I failed with an FA. I am certain the presentation part let me down.

    Questions like this are hardly a fair test of communication skills. I would love to see an examiner's report as I suspect most candidates would have failed on this question in isolation. I have applied for exam counselling so will hopefully find out a little more in due course.
     
  3. Slumpy

    Slumpy Member

    If it helps, I did all 5 acted assignments (marked - I think I was on 90%+ for the last 3 - certainly the last 2) and have failed twice so far. It's some time back the first time I sat CA3, but I think I even put in the IFoA recommended number of hours, so this does happen.
     
  4. I did find this a hard exam to know what was expected from you. However I put in quite a lot of study hrs, maybe double recommend, I presented to anyone who would listen to me (peers, managers, non work friends and even a partner from my firm was willing to listen). Did the same with feedback on the written got a few different managers to give me their opinions and did the assignments with acted marking very useful.

    The marking scheme in the guide is also very useful, easy marks for layout and offer of help etc.

    I think the key is to keep it simple and don't be afraid to leave some bits of information out, you don't need all of it to communicate your point.

    It worked because I found out recently I passed this exam first time.

    Good luck you will get there
     
  5. Busy_Bee4422

    Busy_Bee4422 Ton up Member

    Those who gripe over CA3, assuming its the only exam you are left with why not just get exemptions from SOA and do modules and use mutual recognition to get around qualifying?
     
  6. vikky

    vikky Ton up Member

    Zivanaik I am not sure what you mean.Can you please elaborate?
    Thanks
     
  7. Busy_Bee4422

    Busy_Bee4422 Ton up Member

    Assuming Ca3 is the only exam you have left, you can apply for exemptions from the Society of Actuaries (SOA) and they will offer you exemptions. Your CTs and the 2 CAs will get you all exams for associateship. Normally the ST and corresponding SA qualify for the fellowship track exams the SOA offers but you will not be exempted from the modules. You will be required to do the modules that apply for a track to complete a track. You will then have a couple of professionalism courses and the capstone module to get your FSA. Fortunately the SOA approach to communication is not by examination so you may find it doable. You then do what is required to qualify under SOA then after you get your FSA you then apply for your FIFoA by mutual recognition and you are done. You will be an actuary any way it is looked at.
     
  8. vikky

    vikky Ton up Member

    Hi again
    Yes I do have only CA3 left but am not sure whether further modules are only required under SOA for a Life Actuary fellowship
    After reading your post I went on the SOA website and checked this
    Refer
    https://www.soa.org/Education/Exam-Req/edu-fsa-req.aspx

    According to this you have to also give the Life Risk Management Exam OR the ERM exam as well if you want the Life Actuary fellowship.
    Not sure if I am missing something here??
     
  9. Busy_Bee4422

    Busy_Bee4422 Ton up Member

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  10. vikky

    vikky Ton up Member

    Thanks but I would much rather stick with the UK Institute
    Regards
     
  11. Purp1euk

    Purp1euk Member

    The OP will be pleased to know that the verbal communication element of CA3 is to be moved into the "new" work-based skills under the changes following the IFoA's Education Strategy Review.
     

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