associateship scandal - how unfair

[michaelteang]

you can now call yourself an actuary if you pass all CTs and CAs.

I am very upset by this as I have got only CA3 to pass to become a fellow yet am stucked with the subject for years without a recognition - how unfair - years of hard work does not really pay off in my case. is there anyone in the same boat as me - imagine there will be many AIAs and FIAs and yet you will be called over mature student.

please read below (potential discrimination against students who have left with CA3 only to qualify as an FIA):

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email sent out by the institute

Congratulations. If you have completed the CA and CT examinations you have now passed the examinations necessary to qualify to become an Associate of the Institute or the Faculty of Actuaries.


To take the next step in the process to become an Associate you will need to complete a one-day Professionalism course. If you joined The Actuarial Profession as a student after 1 July 2004, you will also need to complete one year’s experience and work based skills, in addition to completing the relevant examinations.


If you wish to take up this offer, please contact Karen Brocklesby at mailto:karen.brocklesby*actuaries.org.uk or on +44 (0)1865 268215 and the relevant forms will be sent to you for completion. After your upgrade to Associateship has been formally approved you will be invited to attend an Associates Ceremony (this will take place after you have attended the one-day Professionalism course) and receive your certification as an Associate of the Faculty or the Institute of Actuaries.


As an Associate, you will be able to call yourself an Actuary with the full blessing of the Councils of both the Institute and the Faculty of Actuaries. You will also be entitled to use the initials AIA or AFA to demonstrate you have achieved this significant qualification and are now an Associate of the Faculty or the Institute. You will also be eligible to vote in elections to Council and on changes to the Charter, rules or bye-laws.


As part of our strategic review we have been looking at the qualifications we offer, our members’ career prospects and the changing demands of the employment market. We know some of our members’ skills are not fully recognised and we wish to raise the profile of these members – as Associates. You can find more information about this on the Profession’s website and in the March issue of The Actuary magazine.


At present, the subscription level for Associates and students is the same.
Taking up Associateship will have no immediate financial impact for you or your employer. However, it is possible that the higher status of Associate may be reflected in a higher subscription in the future. Any change in subscriptions would have to be voted on by the membership. You will also be covered by the Profession’s mandatory CPD requirements and will be in Category 2. Details of the scheme are at http://www.actuaries.org.uk/Display_Page.cgi?url=/cpd/cpd_scheme.xml.


We are sure you appreciate that the learning process should not stop now – indeed it should continue throughout your professional life. As an Associate you are, of course, able to continue towards qualification as a Fellow but you can enjoy the valuable benefits as an Associate until you attain that qualification.


The attainment of the Associateship is a notable landmark in your professional life and we hope it will increase your profile and your career prospects. We send you our best wishes for a long, happy and successful career.


Yours sincerely


Nick Dumbreck Stewart Ritchie
President President
Institute of Actuaries Faculty of Actuaries

 

[michaelteang]

dumbing down

still - if you are one please write in to complain -

i still think it's silly when they try to raise the actuary's profile by dumbing down ie allowing students with less exams to call themselves actuaries as a formal recognition from the institute yet we do not deserve one and get punished for not passing ca3.

i don't know when I'll pass ca3 and like to have some form of recognition after studying for these many years - I do need to attend formal CPDs and professionalism course given what am doing at the moment

 

[examstudent]

im sure this'll motivate you though to pass CA3 asap

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

There is a write up about this on the Institute website at http://www.actuaries.org.uk/Display_Page.cgi?url=/students/associateshipintro.html. This page also contains a link to the text of the article about the Associateship title in the latest issue of The Actuary.

 

[Gareth]

just be happy you have passed all the ST's and SA paper! there's lots of people who get stuck on these and for those people the AIA / AFA will be at least some reward for all the years of hard work.

Go and take some lessons in writing and get your CA3 exam.

 

[bystander]

The profession had to make a decision what exams you need. If they had said the cut was somewhere else, I'm sure someone would still feel aggrieved.

But the profession is trying to be seen as a body where its members are better communicators. With that definition, I can't see how they could omit CA3 for this tier.

Just bite the bullet and pass the paper if you really feel that strongly that you crave a formal title.

 

[michaelteang]

just be happy you have passed all the ST's and SA paper! there's lots of people who get stuck on these and for those people the AIA / AFA will be at least some reward for all the years of hard work.

Go and take some lessons in writing and get your CA3 exam.

Have stucked for other exams for many years too for your information - so where's the reward for all my years of hard work? have spent thousands of pounds on getting help and keep getting FAs - so what do you reckon?

 

[michaelteang]

The profession had to make a decision what exams you need. If they had said the cut was somewhere else, I'm sure someone would still feel aggrieved.

But the profession is trying to be seen as a body where its members are better communicators. With that definition, I can't see how they could omit CA3 for this tier.

Just bite the bullet and pass the paper if you really feel that strongly that you crave a formal title.

can the profession not make the wrong decision? what they can do is to award on credit basis - sam minimum of 20 credits worth of exam passes, actuaries in life is better equipped by passing all relevant cts and sts to be called a AIA than simply all cts and cas - this approach is fairer at least

 

[examstudent]

the aim of AIA it seems is to provide a generalist qualification that meets minimum standards and has applicability across nations, occupations etc. hence they would have to have prescribed subjects in AIA - a credit basis woudl not meet criteria.
it seems fellowship is the specialist qualification (e.g life ,gi ect)

seems unfair but .. thats how the cookie crumbles!

 

[Gareth]

Have stucked for other exams for many years too for your information - so where's the reward for all my years of hard work? have spent thousands of pounds on getting help and keep getting FAs - so what do you reckon?

Yes, but you are so close to the finish line. There must be some way for you to pass CA3 if you get enough tuition on the communication side.

While it seems unfair that the stupid communcation paper is preventing you from qualifying, you are surely far closer than someone who finds after completing the CT's that they cannot pass any of the ST exams?

 

[bystander]

You say you have tried on a number of occasions to pass communications yet seem to consistently achieve FA. One of the things I would recommend is that you re-read your script.

Look closely at your posting, for examaple. Use of is instead of are, typographical error of sam rather than say. Maybe all you need to do is find the discipline to review what you say. A slight grammatical slip may mean you lose the extra 2 points that make a difference FA versus Pass.

Yes it's a nuisance that this is a written exam and we all use word processors. But it's the hoop you have to jump through to make the grade.

I suggest you contact your student rep (there is a list posted on the actuaries site) and get your views to the profession that way. The powers that be won't read this site.

 

[michaelteang]

the aim of AIA it seems is to provide a generalist qualification that meets minimum standards and has applicability across nations, occupations etc. hence they would have to have prescribed subjects in AIA - a credit basis woudl not meet criteria.
it seems fellowship is the specialist qualification (e.g life ,gi ect)

seems unfair but .. thats how the cookie crumbles!

hasn't there one already called diploma of actuarial techniques for passing CTs - do CAs really add any value?

 

[examstudent]

chill out micheal,
youve passed loads of these exams, so if i were a betting man, you passing CA3 is a good safe bet!!!!!!!!!!!

unfortunately when ull pass i dont know!

look at it like this ..only approx 750 words stands between u and finish line.

 

[King]

hasn't there one already called diploma of actuarial techniques for passing CTs - do CAs really add any value?

You do realise you're raising concerns as to why you repeatedly fail CA3, whilst simultaneously presenting sub-high-school grammar.

 

[examstudent]

king, I thinks thats a bit harsh on micheal, he might be a poor typer thats all,

im a poor typer and hence present poor spelling and grammar. (to be honest cant be bothered to check) but that is completely the opposite of how i would write in exam.

 

[King]

king, I thinks thats a bit harsh on micheal, he might be a poor typer thats all,

im a poor typer and hence present poor spelling and grammar. (to be honest cant be bothered to check) but that is completely the opposite of how i would write in exam.

Perhaps, and I’m guilty of it too – but I'm not asking ‘why can't I pass communications?’. In any case, there is a difference between a typo and a clear grammatical error.

 

[michaelteang]

Perhaps, and I’m guilty of it too – but I'm not asking ‘why can't I pass communications?’. In any case, there is a difference between a typo and a clear grammatical error.

am talking about the appropriateness of granting associateship here to selective few when many may deserve more of that title having worked in the industry for years who have left with the CA3 subject to qualify. And there's a difference in writing in a forum as opposed to writing a formal report/CA3 etc - please show some common sense here.

 

[bystander]

Bored of this now. Take it up by more appropriate channels eg send your grievance to Trevor Watkins or go via the Student Consultative Committee.

But even if you win your case, I bet it would be quicker for you to pass CA3.

If you are going for it this time, Good luck.

 

[gordon_sun]

I am wondering whether Accountants, lawyers and Doctors need to pass such exam in their qualification process...

 

[alskling]

Perhaps, and I’m guilty of it too – but I'm not asking ‘why can't I pass communications?’. In any case, there is a difference between a typo and a clear grammatical error.

Sorry Michael but I totally agree with King here.

Given the grammatical mistakes you are making it sounds like English isn't your first language? I'm sure this must make CA3 harder, however, this must also affect the quality of written reports you produce at work? You might be better off taking some time out and doing some courses that focus on teaching you the rules of English grammar? I really admire people who can achieve near fluency in a second language but if you want to pass an exam that marks you down for incorrect grammar then you should make sure that you do as much as possible to perfect this.

Good luck with it

 

[Fiasco]

Michael, in your case, do not waste time worry about associateship. Go for the fellowship - you are so close. I am sure that you won't just want to be an AIA given all the hard work you put in.