Judgment Day

A judgment has been issued.

A UK court has ruled that the IFOA has discriminated against British students. Accept it.

How about that the IFOA has been engaging in race discrimination against British students for almost two decades and are continuing to do it?

Study for the rest of your life if you want, but others don’t need to be put through unnecessary exams by a discriminatory qualifications body

 

I've finished the exams now so won't be studying for the rest of my life. I guess time will tell if general opinion is that exams are "unnecessary". It seems to me that the actuarial exams are still held in very high regard with actuaries in high demand. If UK companies suddenly stop putting students through the IFoA exams or if Fellows start suddenly transferring to other bodies then I guess that would prove you're right.

Personally, I think a change will be made to the arrangement to the IAI, this loophole will be closed and things will continue as they have done, with the IFoA qualification seen as a "gold standard" qualification which you have previously referred to it as.

The claimant in the case has obviously shown a lot of grit and determination to get the case all the way through the courts so well done to him.

 

It’s not a loophole. It’s a discriminatory act. If the IFoA would publish the judgment and inform their members what they’ve probably spent 500k in legal fees (your money) on, them you could see for yourself. The change was already made while my claim was running to try to cover up their discriminatory actions.

 

The ifoa are devaluing your qualification as we speak. Not only have they flooded the market with cheap lavbour, they’re trying to devalue the fellowship which you’ve struggled to achieve and also to cover up the fact that they’ve been awarding foreign actuaries the fellowship when they’ve only taken a 2 year university course

 

Great - glad to see the IFoA have made a change to close this loophole. What action did they take?

I don't know enough about Mutual Recognition to comment on the validity of your concerns regarding the alleged devaluing of the qualification through mutual recognition. I note that the tribunal case also recognised that the claimant wasn't in a position to accurately assess the fairness of mutual recognition either. If anything, I think it's quite attractive that if I moved to a different country my FFA status would be recognised.

 

As I keep saying it wasn’t a loophole. It was a discriminatory act. If it was a loophole they should have investigated the several complaints made prior to legal action being taken. They’ve known about it and already had a claim on a similar topic many years ago. They did nothing. They’ve treated me like a second class individual and no one on this forum has ever had a favourable outcome about a grievance. Excuses cannot be made now. They’ve known about it for a long time. They’ve even profited from it and it is certainly not by accident. They’ve lied in court and they’re trying to cover up even more of their disgraceful behaviour

 

That's concerning if a previous judgment went against the IFoA along similar lines. Can you please send a link to the case you reference?

You're referring to "disgraceful behaviour" without offering any examples. What makes you feel like you've been treated as a second class citizen?

 

No I will not provide the judgment. Please ask the IFoA.

What makes me feel like a second class citizen? Is the answer not clear? I’ve been discriminated against for almost 2 decades

 

It wasn't obvious to me why you felt like a second class citizen which is why I asked the question. Out of interest, would you genuinely have taken 4 exam sittings per year if it had been an option? Or is it more the principle that IAI members had the option of 4 exam sittings compared to the 2 that UK students have?

Will you go on to finish the exams? Or are you no longer interested in doing them?

 

Of course I would have taken the exam again. If I didn’t feel confident about the first sitting. Why not take it again shortly after the first sitting since they are so conveniently timed. I have told you or another poster to google it. Indian students are doing it all the time. I would have finished the exams a long time ago and not got completely demotivated due to my private life being destroyed for an extensive period of time.

I can’t continue the exams as I am psychologically scarred from my experience with the IFOA. I’m struggling to take any further exam or even read a book. I’ve taken so many exams I’m absolutely sick of it. I had three exams left and now they want me to take 6 because of their ridiculous exam change and they expect me to study the same rubbish which I have passed all over again. I will not be doing that.

My life and career has been ruined by the IFOA and I’m glad that I finally have the UK court on my side to demonstrate that the IFOA have been doing wrong. It is now just a matter of time until there are some big changes. A self regulating discriminating monopoly.... things are about to change.

 

Yes you are welcome to lodge a claim. I’d be happy to explain the process to you. Please contact me privately if you want more information.

 

The end of the post concludes it is best to join both institutes and that is what most Indian students do. It’s easy to find more references to the advice telling students to do both sets of exams. British students unfortunately can’t join both due to the discriminatory instruction of the IFoA

 

Maybe it's better for your mental health to take a step back instead of allowing yourself get wound up by posters on here. Like you said a remedy hearing will be held next month. I hope that you are happy with the outcome... but regardless of the remedy, I am with other posters in that all the executives involved will not be resigning and little will actually change.

Put this ordeal behind you and enjoy your life.

 

Null - I'm really sorry to hear that your experience has had such a profound effect on you and your personal life. I hope this judgment brings you some form of closure and you're able to move on with things.

You have obviously put a lot in to pursuing the IFoA and the judgment shows that the IFoA were in the wrong, just be careful that you don't win the battle but lose the war. Your health and being able to enjoy your life with your family is far, far more important than any professional qualification ever will be.

We definitely have differing views on certain things but I genuinely wish you all the best for the future.

 

Then perhaps you, as an actuary, should release yourself from a position of ignorance and see what your qualification is being traded for. IFoA will give you no information on this and has even withheld such information from the Courts. The truth has slipped out from them on videos such as the Chartered Actuary consultation. They are not being totally honest with the membership about the situation. They were never honest about their relationship with the IAI that a Court has seen right through and declared it discriminatory. I don't see why the profession must be run by people who conduct themselves in this manner. It is completely disgraceful and they should be thrown out and replaced with people who have a healthier attitude towards genuine complaints by members, who are directly affected by the poor decisions they've made.

 

This ordeal is completely the responsibility of the IFoA. They went out of their way to fight this and frustrate those who complain. They didn't want their dirty little arrangements changing one little bit. They held back information. They just wanted the complaints to disappear. It is to the claimant's credit he put his money where his mouth was and pursued it to his conclusion. In the process he did the entire profession a favour by exposing what those running it were up to.

Did you know that IFoA has released a new equality and diversity policy that does not cover its members? In light of this case that is completely unacceptable. It can't be right that the IFoA outsources its discrimination complaints to the Court! That leaves members with a genuine complaint with the daunting possibility of going to Court unrepresented or paying many thousands for legal representation. We already pay and have paid a fortune in subscriptions and exams fees to put a Chief Executive on around £400k. He should set up a credible complaints process for discrimination. He should not be spending big money on lawyers to fight tribunal claims but rather pay lawyers to trawl through their arrangements that have been complained of and fix them.

 

We must wonder who some of those posters are. They're keen to attack the victim of racial discrimination, no criticism of IFoA except trying to trivialise the matter in an attempt to excuse them. In the end, their views are irrelevant. The Court has made its decision & none of them turned up to that hearing.

 

How do you see it fit to question why a victim of racial discrimination feels like a second class citizen? It's completely obvious to anyone.

IFoA made no effort to investigate or sort out the complaint. They arrogantly thought they could waltz into the Court and get away with it. They lost, big time.

 

Yes it was an ordeal and no I won’t be putting it behind me. I’m still in a position where I’m not qualified and I’m expected to repeat exams which I have already passed.

Even if I was qualified, my foreign Europen colleagues have studied to associate (if even) to come the same level as me. I’ll be pursuing this until I reach a favourable outcome. As you can see I’ve already won against the IFoA and proved that IFoA is breaking the law. They are discriminating and something will change. There is no report in the mainstream media yet. Things are going to change.

You make out like I am some minority. There are thousands of disgruntled students. Especially the 82% of women who waste 7 years of their lives in the profession only to give up.

The IFOA has lied about qualification times as can be seen by the ASA ruling, they’ve done nothing to regulate to profession for 13 years since the Morris review according to the Kingman review, the Morris review also highlighted their short comings, the EHRC already advised them to change their discriminatory pricing policy based on nationality and now it has been proven that the IFoA discriminate against British students such as myself.

 

Just because you disagree with someone's views it doesn't make them irrelevant. Everyone is entitled to express an opinion.

As for my "position of ignorance", the following link https://www.actuaries.org.uk/membership/mutual-recognition appears to set out the requirements to transfer across from a number of exam bodies. It appears that people need to be Fellows in their own country, with UK work and be signed off by a UK Fellow before being allowed to transfer. Seems reasonable to me.

 

Everyone is not allowed to express their opinion. I’ve been blocked and thrown off here multiple times.

I’ve worked in a European country and witnessed what people around Europe have to study since 2006. I brought 3 qualified actuaries to the court as witnesses. One was US qualified. We all observed the same thing. European actuaries don’t have to study as much as British ones. The IFOA refused to disclose information and their witnesses lied in court. Many IFoA employees and volunteers hold leadership positions at the European body (AAE) which is the Actuarial body in Europe administered by the IFOA. No information was disclosed despite it being in the possession of the IFOA. I’ve managed to get hold of conclusive information which shows that the IFOA awards European actuaries with the fellowship when then only have to study up to Associateship level. They have supposedly conducted rigorous benchmark exercises to check equivalence. They haven’t produced any of this. The MRA agreements are inequitable and unfair.

During my case the Indian MRA was suspended. The IFOA has also told the AAE (again in undisclosed communications) that the entire European AAE MRA needs to be renegotiated due to discriminations claimS currently in court. This is why they are trying to introduce the chartered actuary at associate level. They will only award European actuaries with associateship or chartered actuary in the future in an attempt to cover their tracks for the discrimination which has occurred. It’s too late. People have suffered.

Time to pay and people to resign.