Stick with ASSA or move to IFoA?

Discussion in 'South Africa' started by Jeffrey Paterson, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Hi all,

    Taking a chance here as I see there has not been much activity here in the last two years or so.
    As the title reads, I am in a bit of a pickle as to whether I should keep my membership with ASSA and continue to write these exams or move my membership to the IFoA?
    I have recently completed my last two CT's and hopefully I would have passed these. The problem now becomes that I will have to write CA1 and communications in the year to come. And thereafter start with the F-series (ST's and SA's). The problem for me is that I do not see any revision material etc offered for the ASSA exams which I feel could be a downfall while studying for these specialist exams. As I understand it, exam technique is even more important when it comes to these exams and I feel products such as ASET, flashcards etc can definitely help in my exam preparation.
    I wanted to find out from you that may have experienced the same and whether you felt this was a problem or not?
    My biggest concern about switching to the UK based exams is that there may be legislation etc that I will not be too familiar with having not practiced or stayed there?

    Any advice on what to do will be hugely appreciated.
     
  2. Bidza

    Bidza Member

    Hi Jeffery

    I will throw in my two cents as someone who wrote with both. in terms of revision material, what I found out was that the CAs and F100 subjects are not really country specific so the IFOA revision materials were still quite helpful for ASSA exams. The level of examining is slightly different with ASSA but there are now many past papers available(especially for the F100 subjects). SO if your only motivation is due revision materials then there might not be that much benefit to switching. The same exam technique tips you will get from the flashcards/asset/revision booklets are exactly the same techniques you will need for the ASSA exams.
     
  3. Jeffery, I also wrote my last two CT’s in September. How could one even write the ST exams in South Africa, I didn’t even know it was possible?

    Can someone possibly ellaborate on the pros and cons of writing the ST’s through IFoA, instead of F100’s through ASSA, whilst living in South Africa?
     
  4. I have another question: were I to write
    subjects ST5(investments A) and ST6(investments B) through IFoA, would I then effectively be exempt from two F100’s through ASSA?
     
  5. Bidza

    Bidza Member

    The mutual recognition arrangement is such that you can only get exempted for the STs/F100s once you are a fellow. Currently, you can only get one to one exemptions for the CT and ST9s. You can only get exemption from the later subjects only once you are a fellow, So you would first have to be fellow with IFOA to get your exemptions recognized.

    The pros of writing through IFoA is that pass rates are generally higher(but does not necessarily mean that its easier). Generally you will progress faster with the STs and SA but you are likely to get stuck on the CA2 and CP3. With ASSA you will probably pass the CA2 and CA3 quicker but can get a bit stuck at the ST and Fellowship stage.

    The advantage of writing ASSA exams in SA is that the exams test knowledge based on SA products and SA legislations
     
  6. Geraldine

    Geraldine Member

    I have some anecdotal evidence that might support this - I passed ASSA's "CA3" exam on the first attempt with maybe a day or two of studying, but I got INCREDIBLY stuck on the UK's CA3 and CP3 exams (I've had to take these because I emigrated and then started taking the STs). I also passed two STs in a row, both the on first real attempt at studying for them.

    And for what it's worth, I think they only really test on UK legislation in the SA exam. I don't recall this ever being a major concern in either of the ST exams or in the past papers I had looked at for revision. For the SA exam, legislation, taxation, accounting, regulation etc. did appear to be a fairly frequent topic examined but:

    1. The most marks seemed to be for Solvency II - which is practically the same thing as South Africa's SAM
    2. There's a lot in the notes on taxation and it's quite complicated for health insurance products - but they've only ever really tested in the most superficial way (i.e. some really basic, high level questions that should indicate whether you get the gist of it)
    3. I've never worked in the UK but I haven't found it hard to attempt the past papers - after you've gone through about 10, and you've understood the issues faced in the UK and EU (and learn the issues the notes refer to with respect to other countries or areas) it's fairly straightforward. That said, I'm waiting for results in December 2018 :p
     
  7. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    ... but IFoA Directors claim qualification equivalence with those they have MRA with as per their Royal Charter obligations, which should mean comms exam just as hard everywhere! I know who I believe Geraldine.
     
  8. Infinity

    Infinity Member

    I wouldn’t bother switching to the ifoa exams if you have any other option. The ifoa exams are unnecessarily more difficult and the ifoa is not a very professional body. They don’t have a proper complaints process, they keep changing things and they lie to their members on a regular basis. Let’s see if this one gets through...

    UPDATE:
    The above has been edited by acted and I’m not even sure anymore what I have originally said. I would warn anyone reading my posts that they may not even necessarily reflect my opinion or my original point.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2018
  9. Ace123

    Ace123 Member

    There is a complaints procedure on their website that outlines the steps in place - but don't let that stop you from pretending it doesn't.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2018
  10. Infinity

    Infinity Member

    As explained, the ifoa only investigate certain complaints under their complaints procedure. If you want to complain that the ceo has lied in black and white in the annual report then they just claim that the complaint is not suitable for their process.
     
    almost_there likes this.
  11. student1990

    student1990 Member

    Alan Hansen once said you'll never win anything with kids - people have been writing to the BBC and complaining that he lied for years! In the end he had to leave as he got fed up with all the false accusations.
     
    Ace123 likes this.
  12. Ace123

    Ace123 Member

    Let's just say the CEO resigned because of this "lie", and the new CEO came along and said mistakes were made, sorry etc but we are sticking with the new Curriculum. I still think that you would be complaining.
     
  13. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    Indeed and it is the CEO who handles this process. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The complaints process is wholly inadequate. This has been brought to the FRC who are meant to provide 'oversight' of IFoA, where monitoring that IFoA have carried out this complaints process is in their remit. Not once have I seen in FRC/IFoA council meetings them discuss the adequacy of this complaints process despite it having at least two clauses to not consider a complaint, that it doesn't address anything they can call IFoA policy and the obvious problem of this process controlled by IFoA CEO when really there should be another person such as IFoA President or FRC who should be receiving & investigating complaints about the conduct of IFoA CEO.
     
  14. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    I cannot follow your logic here. It's OK for someone to lie and not make things right because if they actually were fired or resigned then another CEO would came along and also not put things right?
     
  15. Muppet

    Muppet Member

    May be putting things right doesn't mean upholding the "lie" - which personally I see as a badly worded or ill-advised statement. If the transition arrangements are deemed reasonable by the new CEO/Council then you will never get the resolution you want.
     
  16. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    One would have to suspend all logic and reasoning to conclude no one is disadvantaged from the arrangements. Look at Council minutes and you won't even find this issue discussed.
     
  17. Muppet

    Muppet Member

    I think that's my point - someone is always gong to be "disadvantaged". That may not be deemed unreasonable on a fresh look. They have to balance practicalities with ideology.
     
  18. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    That doesn't work - Hansen, a pundit who expressed an opinion and got proved wrong by events, events he had no control over.

    Mr Cribb however as CEO made a promise that turns out not to be true.
     
  19. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    The point is Mr Cribb promised they'd ensure no one would be disadvantaged.
     
  20. almost_there

    almost_there Member

    I'd be very interested in the ASSA's "CA3" pass rate, syllabus, method of assessment, to see how it compares with CA3/CP3.
     
  21. Gosh, I only came back to this post now and didn't realise it has gained so much traction.
    Between then and now I have decided to stick with ASSA. Purely based on the fact that if I were to switch to IFoA, I would have to for out around ZAR 30k to get the exemptions for the CT exams I have already written and passed, which I find pointless given that these are IFoA coordinated exams. Although I do realise that they are separate bodies etc. Given the mutual recognition ASSA have with IFoA (and vice versa) I think I am going to push through with ASSA and if that day ever comes where I would need that IFoA membership I would apply after my fellowship with ASSA. As Bidza mentioned this is the only way after the CT's to get the exemptions for the latter modules.
     

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