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VictorC_Lndn
Member
I dont get why they made it open book to begin with and are now going after people whose answers sound like they came out of an open book.
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almost_there
Member
It is but given that this IFoA organisation has been found foul of various laws and regulations and even publicly accused by European bodies recently about their conduct... on top of the previous complaints here of refusing to mark people's scripts who were unable to upload onto their online software... why would people expect fairness here? In my view they are not fit to regulate actuaries.
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Han Wang
Member
sorry I meant for those who are under investigation (received letters).
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Priya12
Member
Hi, A friend of mine has got a letter stating Examiners Report 1995 Paper G. Can anyone help locate this examiners report? Is there such a thing as paper G?
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DM261
Member
So, let me get this straight, they made the exam book and are now accusing people of cheating when they have no way to prove that the student copied out of the notes (which is allowed regardless) rather than memorising that section of the notes before the exam?
The whole thing seems bizarre. Honestly the profession is going to lose talented people over nonsense like this.
The whole thing seems bizarre. Honestly the profession is going to lose talented people over nonsense like this.
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almost_there
Member
They're cross-referencing people's answers with old exam reports like this?!?!
Where does IFoA find the time, leadership or resources to pursue nonsense like this when they're losing millions?
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ProudActuary
Member
It does seem a very strange situation.
If someone has simply copy and pasted core reading then they should, quite rightly, be investigated. What appears to be happening is people are being hauled over the coals for describing things in a similar way to core reading. This is nonsensical as the definitions of an accepted concept will be similar!
If anyone needs a hand with responding to the IFoA charge then please pm me, I'm less than impressed with what I've heard so far as to how they are treating students. I work in pensions and investments.
If someone has simply copy and pasted core reading then they should, quite rightly, be investigated. What appears to be happening is people are being hauled over the coals for describing things in a similar way to core reading. This is nonsensical as the definitions of an accepted concept will be similar!
If anyone needs a hand with responding to the IFoA charge then please pm me, I'm less than impressed with what I've heard so far as to how they are treating students. I work in pensions and investments.
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DM261
Member
Just to clarify, by "copied" I mean to write out something based on the notes you've made and not literally copy and paste. The latter is explicitly banned.
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Priya12
Member
Although copy and paste does not relate to me, I think it’s important for people to distinguish what is in the FAQS is not the assessment regulations. The copy and paste, etc were only added to the assessment regulations in the July update as with many other things from the FAQ. The assessment regs make no mention of the FAQ so I’ve been told to stick to the assessment regulation doc only.
I have to say this concerns me. The rules do state that you should not copy from your notes. They should only be used for reference. However, is it impossible to memorise a definition and quote it in the exam? How do they really know if you copied it or not? I feel like I should get a webcam just in case because this is worrying.
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almost_there
Member
I don't understand your point. In the other thread you said bookwork questions would become 'free' marks and IFoA would put up pass marks.
G is going a long way back. It came before 303 which came before ST3, which was replaced by ST7/8.
We'll send you a PM.
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ProudActuary
Member
Ha - I said I thought what might happen but heavily caveated what I said. Anyway, the pass mark/rates for the exams haven't been released yet so let's see what the result comes. I don't really understand what point you're making here.
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almost_there
Member
I see what you mean but we don't even know if IFoA will accept that as 'evidence'. Seems to me IFoA are on a fishing expedition for 'evidence' without specifying what they would find acceptable to prove one's innocence after IFoA presume them guilty.
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almost_there
Member
So has IFoA put up pass marks and set about accusing students of cheating on the bookwork question - surely this will end up in lower pass rates and people requiring resit or even paying a disciplinary fine... that cashflow only goes in one direction.
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ProudActuary
Member
Surely a practical question has to be asked around this accusation - the student would have had to go through nearly 25 years of past papers to copy an answer from. Think how much time that would waste, incredible. I hope that when these cases are properly investigated the IFoA come to their senses!
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almost_there
Member
Who at IFoA is responsible for instigating these investigations?
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VictorC_Lndn
Member
And are there even 25 years worth of past papers available as a standard part of the notes?
It sounds like someone is being accused of copying a paper they didnt even know existed and cant find online (and copying online content *seems* to be the nub of the issue...or rather the basis for many of the accusations )
I feel desperately sorry for anyone involved. Either there are a lot of dishonest people in the profession who studied hard and well for decades only to throw their hard work away by cheating first chance they got...which seems unlikely to me...or tens/hundreds of students have been accused wrongly of cheating in an open book exam.
I'd love to know how many in total got these letters. If it was a tiny handful that would be one thing, but when the accusations are this widespread the problem cant simply be the students are all dishonest.
Horrible horrible stuff.
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Sarah_64
Member
I think you are spot on here. They replied to my email where I asked them to call me and all they said was they won't discuss individual cases until after I've sent my evidence in, but they don't give any examples of what evidence would be satisfactory.
I think they have no way of proving their claims but want the students to provide info that could mean they slip up / confess by accident! They are well and truly against us. It's mad something that would've scored us full marks in the normal exam centre is instead causing investigations and accusations against us.
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almost_there
Member
It's a trap and I'm glad you've spotted that. What they're doing violates natural justice. People deserve to know the case to be met.
There is a third possibility, they have been accused rightly but only cheated inadvertently because the rules weren't sufficiently clear.