Thesis dedicated to actuarial students

[almost_there]

So since 1991 the Ifoa has been making us do these actuarial exams for nothing. Introducing an excel paper in 2018, newly 30 years after someone has made the observation that the computation required in actuarial exams is outdated!!

Indeed. Imagine any other profession where you qualify without demonstrating competency in the key software used in the industry. Never mind Excel, the qualification doesn't prove any competence in Prophet or MoSes for example, skills employers actually ask for...

 

[Infinity]

I like this quote especially. This is what current students are doing...

“They stopped fighting the system and acquiescently did what they felt they must, to get past the barrier standing between them and qualified status. In Colin's terms, they became prepared to perjure their minds. It no longer mattered that the examinations were not an honourable challenge, that they were not proud of what they were doing to get through, getting through was all that mattered. A kind of prostitution.”

 

[almost_there]

I like this quote especially. This is what current students are doing...

Sadly that's what I had to do also. More people should get the courage to talk openly about this.

 

[student1990]

"I took the pragmatic decision of beginning by studying the experiences of actuarial rtudents to whom I had relatively easy access; my Department's alumni. Days of searching old student files and the profession's public records, enabled me to identify 194 alumni who had become actuarial trainees between 1975 and 1987. I tried to contact all these, but had nine questionnaires returned `not known at this address', thus reducing the theoretical sample size to a maximum of 185. In reality it may well have been less than this since overseas letters that could not be delivered would not have been returned to me. Indeed, some UK envelopes may have been destroyed rather than returned. Nevertheless, the response rate of at least 74.5% was exceptionally high for a postal survey (Babbie, 1990; de Vaus, 1986). This survey was cross-sectional in the sense that it elicited data about the student experience of actuarial education and assessment, from people at all stages of the process. For example, among the respondents, 32 were in their first year as actuarial students, 34 had qualified and 17 had withdrawn from the profession."
Niche sample

 

[almost_there]

In the days of only 10 exams to qualify...
Page 26:
Thus. those who join the actuarial profession have previously experienced high levels
of examination success This has an important effect on the student experience of actuarial
examinations The failure rates in the professional examinations are high (appendix II) and,
for the Institute of Actuaries, the average time to qualification remains stubbornly high at
around six years This is despite concerted institutional efforts to improve pass rates and
reduce the time to qualification (Daykin ct at, 1987.Education Strategy Working Party,
1990, Kennedy, 1984).

 

[almost_there]

Look at how the author was treated by the Institute, page 31:
However, at that time (1987-88) carrying out an illuminative evaluation was not possible because key gatekeepers within the Institute of Actuaries had no desire to have an outsider study the profession's education and examination syqems (section 1 3) A pragmatic change of plan was required.

 

[almost_there]

We read how IFoA think mentoring is the way to stop women leaving the IFoA on average 13 years earlier than men:
https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/news/promoting-gender-diversity-actuarial-profession

IFoA say "There are many reasons for this and no one-size-fits-all solution." but fail to explain the reasons then quickly cite mentoring as the solution.

The thesis provides an explanation, which is that the length of study is the problem. This is not a problem IFoA have seriously addressed and I think their curriculum change makes things worse.

 

[Marzipan]

almost_there - I'm not sure why 'length of study' would be any more applicable to women than to men. As you say, the IFoA is concerned with the fact that women are leaving 13 years earlier than men - assuming men remain members until retirement, the average age of these women would be somewhere in the 40s and so in all likelihood would already be qualified. Therefore, 'length of study' is unlikely going to be a significant reason for women leaving earlier than men. If length of study is longer for women then men it is through the nature of their role in society - actual study time may not be more than for a man but spread over more years.

 

[almost_there]

Marzipan- the 13 years stat is the only one IFoA talk about. Drop out rates by age & gender would be very interesting to analyse.

 

[almost_there]

So for example, you are welcome to ask the question you have done here and the answer is: no, the IFoA have no involvement whatsoever in the moderation of this forum.
So if someone posts that they do - we will delete that comment.

Thank you for this answer but surely the question wasn't so unreasonable given that by now it's declared publicly & officially on Companies House that IFoA via IFE has significant influence or control over Acted:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03062375/persons-with-significant-control

 

[almost_there]

If length of study is longer for women then men it is through the nature of their role in society - actual study time may not be more than for a man but spread over more years.

I think that kind of argument would struggle to stand up nowadays; it seems you're blaming rest of society rather than IFoA's assessment system.

 

[mugono]

almost_there

Have you (considered) raising your concerns directly with the Institute? Or is your objective more to use this forum as an avenue to vent your (general) frustrations with the Institute? Genuine question(s).

 

[Marzipan]

I think that kind of argument would struggle to stand up nowadays; it seems you're blaming rest of society rather than IFoA's assessment system.

??? It seems a bit harsh to blame the Institute alone for the facts of life or the indoctrination of the masses on roles by gender! Not sure what you mean by 'rest of society' as I wasn't excluding any part of it in my comment.

Here is an IFoA quote: "A relatively high proportion of female actuaries are leaving the IFoA in their 30s and 40s: the average age of non-retiree females who have chosen to leave the IFoA in 2014 is 40, compared with the equivalent male age of 53." Source: file:///C:/Users/Ours/Downloads/bringing-benefits-diversity-allfinal.pdf

Okay - there are still stats missing to form a full argument, but even a prudent estimate of time to qualify of 10 years would still indicate that most women are leaving post-qualification, hence length of study is unlikely to be a material consideration.

Personally, the implication that study time be reduced for the benefit of women is positive discrimination and condescending to the efforts that women have put into the exams thus proving their equal capabilities to men, however well meant.

 

[almost_there]

Personally, the implication that study time be reduced for the benefit of women is positive discrimination and condescending to the efforts that women have put into the exams thus proving their equal capabilities to men, however well meant.

I respectfully suggest you research the topic more. The design of an educational assessment system can favour one of the sexes over the other. Introducing modular assessments, coursework etc. usually improves female performance. It's for IFoA to justify why people need to study for 4 months and it all relies on performance in one 3-hour paper.

 

[Infinity]

almost_there

Have you (considered) raising your concerns directly with the Institute? Or is your objective more to use this forum as an avenue to vent your (general) frustrations with the Institute? Genuine question(s).

I’m back. After being banned for over a month. If you try to raise your concerns to the IFOA they will claim that your complaint does not fall under their complaints policy. Failing that they will ignore you and if you try to go to their oversight body, they will say that they only respond to emails about the IFOA every 3 months and proceed to ignore your complaints

 

[Marzipan]

I respectfully suggest you research the topic more. The design of an educational assessment system can favour one of the sexes over the other. Introducing modular assessments, coursework etc. usually improves female performance. It's for IFoA to justify why people need to study for 4 months and it all relies on performance in one 3-hour paper.

Interesting theory - but you are diverting away from your earlier point that 'length of study' is driving women away from the profession. Have you any evidence of this, or even evidence that it does take women longer to qualify than men, allowing for career breaks?

In terms of the exam structure, the actuarial exams are already very modular - imagine studying for 6 years and then taking a 3 hour paper that could literally cover anything! I have little interest in educational psychology but a quick read around the edges suggest that the different exam approaches benefiting one gender over the other maybe just as much down to social reasons (girls discouraged from self-belief in their capabilities in anything other than home-making) as to genuine gender differences. In any case, performance in assessment can be down to many factors so I suspect it would be quite difficult to say categorically that a particular assessment style is more suited to one gender over another. Even it there was strong grounds for this at say GCSE level, I would then question to what extent this translates into professional education where the teaching style is very different (self-taught) and those sitting the exams have made the choice to do so.

 

[almost_there]

Have you any evidence of this, or even evidence that it does take women longer to qualify than men, allowing for career breaks?

I've referred to the thesis. Why don't you request the statistics from the IFoA? Also it's totally wrong to say the exams are already "very modular". Not at all, and are less so now with exams doubling up with students unable to sit and pass papers separately!

 

[Infinity]

Interesting theory - but you are diverting away from your earlier point that 'length of study' is driving women away from the profession. Have you any evidence of this, or even evidence that it does take women longer to qualify than men, allowing for career breaks?

In terms of the exam structure, the actuarial exams are already very modular - imagine studying for 6 years and then taking a 3 hour paper that could literally cover anything! I have little interest in educational psychology but a quick read around the edges suggest that the different exam approaches benefiting one gender over the other maybe just as much down to social reasons (girls discouraged from self-belief in their capabilities in anything other than home-making) as to genuine gender differences. In any case, performance in assessment can be down to many factors so I suspect it would be quite difficult to say categorically that a particular assessment style is more suited to one gender over another. Even it there was strong grounds for this at say GCSE level, I would then question to what extent this translates into professional education where the teaching style is very different (self-taught) and those sitting the exams have made the choice to do so.

Did you see the tweet from Axis Capital about how 82% women leaving the profession within 7 years. You can also see that less than 1/3 of members are female. It’s primarily down to qualification time.

 

[almost_there]

and in terms of the actuarial qualification system being more harsh on women, page 55:
"Nearly half of the respondents' felt that there were aspects peculiar to the actuarial field which hinder women more than men ... The most frequently cited aspect was the length of study time, meaning that women either deferred starting a family (or, some said, even starting a relationship) until qualification, or faced the prospect of studying with a young family"