Apparently there is a much easier way to become qualified!!!

I see unfairness.
However, there is a benefit of being FIA. IFoA has more MRAs than any other.

 

What MRA short cuts to IFA do British people have?

 

With BREXIT now a reality I think this may also be reviewed ?
I think a distinction is made between fellows who have gone down the Europe route and here..FIA and FIA*?
Can anyone confirm this ?

 

I've emailed the IFoA expressing my concern over this. I think something has to be done about it. The unfairness couldn't be more blatant. Imagine if this went to a vote among members of the Profession. I'm pretty confident what the outcome would be. I'll let you know what response I get regarding my email.

 

Me too. I'm glad there are other actuaries out there prepared to stand up for themselves against this unfairness.

 

Does anyone know who's responsible for signing us up to this terrible agreement? How can we get the IFoA to withdraw? Maybe this is our Brexit moment... bring on a referendum I say!

 

Recent MRA between IAI and CAS was signed by presidents of respective Institute, I think same for IFoA.

Now, I think you need to talk to council for this.

 

I've had a response as follows, I thought it would be of interest. It's time to thank Brexit voters as that's the only hope for this to be sorted out!

The IFoA believes it is acting in accordance with its obligations under the EU Directive on the Mutual Recognition of Professional Qualifications, which, as you will appreciate, it is obliged to do as a matter of EU law. It aims to comply at all times with all of its statutory and other obligations, including those contained in the Equality Act 2010.

Acceptance of the European MRA is a condition of membership of the AAE. It in any event is intended to reflect EU law, to which we are for the time being subject. As it happens, the current (2014) AAE MRA is currently subject to review. We will have regard to your comments in considering our input to that (AAE led) review, while recognising of course the legal obligations to which I have referred.

You ask about responsibility for MRAs in terms of IFoA governance. I can confirm that the decision to enter any MRA is a matter for our governing Council. ​

 

It seems to me that by signing this agreement the IFoA have essentially conceded their qualified actuary status is equivalent to the lowest common denominator 'qualified actuary' status from the actuarial societies of continental Europe.

However as we all know getting qualified in the UK is much more difficult, perhaps the most difficult(!), costly, time-consuming... and many people give up! So much for equality... no EU harmonisation there for us!

It cannot possibly claim, with any credibility, in its marketing and PR that the IFoA qualification is the best, most respected, portable internationally etc etc. if it also concedes, by signing such agreements, that it's equivalent to the European qualifications! (but harder and more £££ to get...)

 

OK serious question- as it's becoming the norm for people to fail CA3 many times, same for SA... this can waste years before people can qualify, if ever... not to mention the time, cost and most of all the impact on your happiness...

• What options are there to join a continental Europe actuarial society,
• what exams would we need to do there (if any) to become qualified in their country,
• are the exams in English,
• do we have to live in their country to do them,
• cost ?

This information could be really useful to many people.

 

Yes Agreed! I hope someone can provide some info on this. Could there be another path of least resistance?? All these months of agony for nothing?!

 

I am still gathering information about this mutual recognition agreement. So far this is the most incompetent thing I've come across in a long time. The IFoA should never have signed up to this, it's a terrible mistake!

 

The mutual recognition only applies to people who are qualified in their home countries. So if you're in the UK with just one exam like CA3 remaining which keeps you out of qualification then you won't get considered qualified anywhere in Europe. This is totally unfair when you consider the fact European actuaries don't have to do CA3, where in most cases their other actuarial exams are not done through English! For example all the German association exams are available in Germany only, no English option.

Why did the IFoA not negotiate properly that CA3 must be passed by anyone wishing to be considered a qualified actuary in the UK? Absolutely shocking!

 

To join the French society you have to have been working for 3 years in France as an actuary and the exams are not available in English. Likewise the German exams are not in English.

One pathway could be completing a 2 year Masters course in Switzerland, tuition fees £500/semester for 6 semesters. Then you're qualified in Switzerland and can come back here to get FIA?

 

Now if you're a UK student not only do you have to pass the exams to get FIA but demonstrate 3 years of actuarial work experience. If you become a qualified actuary on the continent on the basis of an University course then work in the UK for just one year and get FIA? 3 years vs 1 year... another inequality at play?

 

Initially when I enquired about who signed the IFoA up to this, I was told it was the President at the time. I asked who this was? They declined to say but said it wasn't the President's decision but rather the Council. I asked who actually signed it and whether the President had a veto over a Council decision? No answer provided. Then I asked which Council meeting so that I can see the minutes? Almost a week gone and I'm still waiting for this. I've been unable to find any discussion or decision from Council minutes on this. There's only 4 Council meetings a year and the latest version of this agreement was signed in 2014. I'll keep you posted.

 

I've been informed that the minutes of the meetings of the IFoA that led to joining the AAE MRA in 2011 are confidential.

 

The IFoA have revealed the following: "the IFoA entered into the current AAE MRA on 23 January 2011. At that time the MRA was signed by the then President, Ronald Bowie, on the recommendation of the International Committee. "

They repeatedly did not answer my question whether the President at the time had a veto on this matter.

 

I believe this constitutes Direct Discrimination under section 13 of the Equality 2010 on the protected grounds of nationality which comes under race - section 9(1)(b)


9 Race
(1) Race includes—
(a) colour;
(b) nationality;
(c) ethnic or national origins.

The standard must be applied equally by or on behalf of the regulator. That is the law.

 

The UK actuarial profession

"Its a hustle" ............Was it Malcolm X who said that???

 

That's impossible when they've conceded they hold no information on the other European associations' regimes.