Advice please - Which exams next (Sept 18)?

[KMER94]

Hello

I'm currently towards September and looking for your thoughts on what's a good idea or not.. I sat CT5 & CA2 in April which I feel like went okay, so hopefully I'll have something to smile about come June/July..

For the September sitting.. I definitely plan to sit CT7 (a resit) and I'm already half way through the notes again, but it's a question of what to sit alongside it. So far I have CT1, CT2, CT3 & CT9. I've already been sitting exams for a while so I have experienced a lot of fails and my confidence with exams was very low before the last sitting. After sitting the April exams feeling like they went okay, it has kinda kicked started me into working much harder to pass.

In my mind i have a couple of options for September - My "nice" option would be to sit CP3 with CT7, but my "crazy" option would be to sit CT8 with it.

Thoughts about "crazy" optionn:
• it would get it out the way and I would not have to do more R than the CT4&CT6 new combo in 2019
• with all going to plan could mean I could bring my qualification 6 months forward (optimistic thinking)..

Issues with "crazy" option:
• I've never passed anything in a September sitting before
• I'd have to pay for CT8 out my own pocket most likely because I don't have enough money from my employer to use for more materials/exam entry fees..
• the Institute decided it would be a great idea to put CT7 & CT8 on the same day for September.
• if i fail CT8 the materials are no use for a resit due to the curriculum change and it would be my money down the drain rather than my employer's.

Doing the "nice" option would mean i wouldn't have to pay any money out my own pocket and I'd have a nicer summer...

At the moment I'm just studying towards CT7 until results come out and then depending on if my CT7 studying is going okay making a firm decision to pick up CT8 or CP3 then.

I have no idea what to expect from CT8, everyone says "it's the hardest CT" but a lot of people seem to pass first time, except my one friend who took 4 attempts at it (which scares me that I'll be like that..). If i do choose CT8 I will be booking a week of holiday to focus purely on it and get ahead with it so I feel like right now I have good intentions!

What would you do in my shoes? Thanks in advance to any responses!

 

[lk1988]

My personal recommendation would be for you to re-sit CT7 along with CP3.

I think you stand a real risk of "biting off more than you can chew" if you were to do CT7 and CT8 in one go (especially as the exam is on the same day!). Not only if you were to fail would you lose your money in terms of resources etc, but it could also knock your confidence again (it sounds like its already pretty fragile at the moment).

I think it would do your confidence good if you were to sit two exams and pass them both, rather than push yourself for the harder option and fail them both.

Finally, don't overlook how hard CP3 can be - it's not an "easy" option and many people do struggle to pass it.

Good luck with whatever you choose - let us know the outcome!!

 

[Muppet]

I agree. Especially as the new CT7 is using a new book in 2019. Best to get it out of the way.
Also the new CT8 uses Excel, not R, so not as bad as you think next year.

 

[Balvinder Singh]

Hi,

I haven’t done CP3 yet so can’t talk about it.

I passed CT8 in the first attempt which I had never expected.

It always scared me the most!

Even if I would study for whole day, at the end of day I would feel as if I didn’t make any good progress.

To me it was very time consuming as I had never studied those topics before.

Though I didn’t realise until the exam that, being scared, I had over prepared this subject. I attempted exam smoothly and passed.

But the negative side of this was that I failed other two exams CT4 and CT5 which I thought were comparatively easier. CT8 had eaten them raw..

So if you haven’t studied those topics before then be mindful that it will take you good time to get the confidence with the subject.

However, one thing is sure that if you give CT8 time, understand the concepts and practice past exams, you WILL pass!

Good luck!!

 

[Infinity]

Hello

I'm currently towards September and looking for your thoughts on what's a good idea or not.. I sat CT5 & CA2 in April which I feel like went okay, so hopefully I'll have something to smile about come June/July..

For the September sitting.. I definitely plan to sit CT7 (a resit) and I'm already half way through the notes again, but it's a question of what to sit alongside it. So far I have CT1, CT2, CT3 & CT9. I've already been sitting exams for a while so I have experienced a lot of fails and my confidence with exams was very low before the last sitting. After sitting the April exams feeling like they went okay, it has kinda kicked started me into working much harder to pass.

In my mind i have a couple of options for September - My "nice" option would be to sit CP3 with CT7, but my "crazy" option would be to sit CT8 with it.

Thoughts about "crazy" optionn:
• it would get it out the way and I would not have to do more R than the CT4&CT6 new combo in 2019
• with all going to plan could mean I could bring my qualification 6 months forward (optimistic thinking)..

Issues with "crazy" option:
• I've never passed anything in a September sitting before
• I'd have to pay for CT8 out my own pocket most likely because I don't have enough money from my employer to use for more materials/exam entry fees..
• the Institute decided it would be a great idea to put CT7 & CT8 on the same day for September.
• if i fail CT8 the materials are no use for a resit due to the curriculum change and it would be my money down the drain rather than my employer's.

Doing the "nice" option would mean i wouldn't have to pay any money out my own pocket and I'd have a nicer summer...

At the moment I'm just studying towards CT7 until results come out and then depending on if my CT7 studying is going okay making a firm decision to pick up CT8 or CP3 then.

I have no idea what to expect from CT8, everyone says "it's the hardest CT" but a lot of people seem to pass first time, except my one friend who took 4 attempts at it (which scares me that I'll be like that..). If i do choose CT8 I will be booking a week of holiday to focus purely on it and get ahead with it so I feel like right now I have good intentions!

What would you do in my shoes? Thanks in advance to any responses!

URGENT - PLEASE READ FOR YOUR OWN SAKE KMER94

The advice you have been provided with so far is misleading and generally poor.

You appear not to have noticed the contradictions and lies which the IFoA have spun with regards to curriculum 2019. While Mr Cribb has stated in the annual report that no one will be affected by the exam changes and many other IFoA officials have spun the same lies, you are another person who will be impacted.

I note you have had some difficulties with the exam, so let me break it to you gently... if you don't pass CT5, then you will have to study the material in CT1 again and you will lose the pass you have for CT1

CT8 will also turn into 2 exams.

So instead of having 5 CT exams to take, you are potentially going to have to take 7 exams in the new system, plus CT7 if you don't pass, which makes it essentially 8 if CT7 is revamped as you'll have to study the new CT7 all over again.

Your priority would be best to concentrate on CT7 since you've already worked on it.

CT7 will be revamped in the new system, so if you fail again, you will also have to study an essentially new course and purchase all the new material most likely.

Perhaps equally important would be to get CT5 to avoid having to study CT1 all over again.

CT8 would be your next priority since it will turn into two exams

Since you don't have either of CT4 and CT6, there is no point in you thinking about this as you can arbitrage the system and only have 1 x 3 hour written exam, plus 1 x 1.5 hour computer based exam in the new system rather than 2 x 3 hour exams in the old system. However I do note what you say about learning a computer language which is a waste of time if you're not going to use it.

I wouldn't was your time with the CP as you have too many other issues.

You are not the only person who has difficulties, 6,700 students have this issue with not having one half of the new exam and a further 1,000 are likely to have CT8 outstanding.

You wouldn't be the only person not to pass an exam first time. I have taken one exam on 7 occasions. The IFoA will not publish exam statistics and they've only just started publishing the exam pass marks. So don't think you're going to pass an exam first time. While many people do, it is not the norm. A week holiday of personal time? Why should you have to do this? The exams are part of your work. Why should you use personal time to complete the exams? Are weekends, evenings, early mornings not enough?

It would be impossible for you to complete CT5, CT8 and CT7 all in the same sitting and you are essentially going to end up having a longer time to qualify.

Doesn't sound fair does it! You mention trying to qualify 6 months earlier, but it is more likely that it will take you several years more to qualify. What the IFoA don't tell you is that many people give up exams after spending 15 years of studying and since they decide like normal people to get married, or encounter health problems, or other priorities get in the way, like having a proper job where you can't devote hundreds of hours to studying essentially outdated and useless material.

The IFoA have promised that current students will not be affected and they have approved their plans by lying to the regulators and other stakeholders.

Sorry to break the bad news to you....

If you are upset about the changes, please contact me privately and I can advise you about what course of action is open to you with regards to complaints.

 

[Net Premium]

Given the mention of CT4/6 combo, I think you've probably spared him/her some bad news and they know already.
Subtle difference, but CM2 (new CT8 with bits of other subjects too) is one exam with two papers. I think it's more important to look at the subject content than the number of papers. Hopefully having to use Excel won't increase the burden a great deal.

Saying they "lied" sounds like an extrapolation too far. Ambiguous communication - possibly. Changing their minds - possibly.

I personally considered the exams to be part of my own professional development, not just part of my work. A transferable skill/qualification that was worth extra effort on top of any study time i was given.

Good luck to both of you.

 

[Infinity]

Given the mention of CT4/6 combo, I think you've probably spared him/her some bad news and they know already.
Subtle difference, but CM2 (new CT8 with bits of other subjects too) is one exam with two papers. I think it's more important to look at the subject content than the number of papers. Hopefully having to use Excel won't increase the burden a great deal.

Saying they "lied" sounds like an extrapolation too far. Ambiguous communication - possibly. Changing their minds - possibly.

I personally considered the exams to be part of my own professional development, not just part of my work. A transferable skill/qualification that was worth extra effort on top of any study time i was given.

Good luck to both of you.

If KMER94 was aware then why would he or she not take CT5?

The communication of the IFoA was so poor that they had to doctor the curriculum 2019 document several times. They also had to send emails to 6,700 students to warn them additionally.

They are going round touting the new combo is one exam when it is not. Why would you make two completely independent exams retrospectively correlated?

I understand the difference between ambiguity and lie. The curriculum 2019 document was originally not even ambiguous but contradictory. However in the annual report Mr Cribb has published a blatant lie. There is nothing contradictory or ambiguous. It’s just a lie. In other stakeholder communications they have also simply lied.

After bitter complaints the IFoA have still not corrected several documents and they remain contradictory.

No they haven’t changed their minds they have just lied in order to appease people and get the new curriculum past all the hurdles.

Why join the exams together and make people do more exams while on the other hand tout that there will be no increase in exams or exam hours or exam times?

With regards to CT8 you are wrong. Some people have to take the exams several times over. There will now be two completely separate exams. Even an Acted tutor wasn’t aware of this and I had to inform him. You are living in a fantasy world if you think this won’t be a burden.

Do you work for the IFoA or Acted by any chance?

 

[Net Premium]

If KMER94 was aware then why would he or she not take CT5?

Because at the top of the post it says they took it in April. I'm assuming they will resit it if they are aren't on the pass list. But I might be wrong as I seem to be about nearly everything else

 

[Net Premium]

With regards to CT8 you are wrong

I'm just going by what it says at https://www.actuaries.org.uk/studying/curriculum-2019/actuarial-mathematics.
Just trying to help. Think I'll crawl back into my hole for another 6 months.

(I'm not working.)

 

[Infinity]

I'm just going by what they it says at https://www.actuaries.org.uk/studying/curriculum-2019/actuarial-mathematics.
Just trying to help. Think I'll crawl back into my hole for another 6 months.

(I'm not working.)

Interesting. I have not seen the document you have sent the link for. Thanks for alerting me of another inconsistancy. If you read the original documentation it says quite clearly that these papers can be sat and passed separately. (See page 4)

https://www.actuaries.org.uk/system/files/field/document/Curriculum2019_201803.pdf

I hope you can now appreciate the IFoA is doctoring published material and has contradictory, ambiguous and false information out there on the web.

Reading your document it angers me even more. I have only time to do one CT per sitting which is about 125-150 hours due to my familily situation. I had 3 CT’s left and have finished he SA’s etc. I cannot now undertake 250 hours of study. And no have no intention to study material from CT6 again

Crawl back Into your hole? So do you work for Acted or the IFoA or not? Have you finished your exams?

 

[Infinity]

Because at the top of the post it says they took it in April. I'm assuming they will resit it if they are aren't on the pass list. But I might be wrong as I seem to be about nearly everything else

Well it doesn’t say he or she has passed CT5 so that is a priority.

Because at the top of the post it says they took it in April. I'm assuming they will resit it if they are aren't on the pass list. But I might be wrong as I seem to be about nearly everything else

I am not saying you’re wrong about everything but you do seem to have sided with the IFoA when there is Clearly false and misleading information published all over the place. As you can see from m

But he or she doesn’t say he has passes CT5 so that is the priority. Along with CT7

CT8 is next but as he or she has stated it’s a big risk to try and get it in one sitting.

And since Mr Cribb said in the annual report which the IFoA cannot doctor or modify, no one will be put in limbo. So there is the lie and I am not exaggerating the situation.

Btw it is not just me that is suffering. I have a wife and we are struggling with some medical treatment. It shouldn’t be the case that I have to plan my healthcare around these exams which are a complete waste of time.

With the advent of the chartered actuary it seems that the fellowship is not really required anymore.

 

[KMER94]

Well it doesn’t say he or she has passed CT5 so that is a priority.


I am not saying you’re wrong about everything but you do seem to have sided with the IFoA when there is Clearly false and misleading information published all over the place. As you can see from m

But he or she doesn’t say he has passes CT5 so that is the priority. Along with CT7

CT8 is next but as he or she has stated it’s a big risk to try and get it in one sitting.

And since Mr Cribb said in the annual report which the IFoA cannot doctor or modify, no one will be put in limbo. So there is the lie and I am not exaggerating the situation.

Btw it is not just me that is suffering. I have a wife and we are struggling with some medical treatment. It shouldn’t be the case that I have to plan my healthcare around these exams which are a complete waste of time.

With the advent of the chartered actuary it seems that the fellowship is not really required anymore.

Thank you @Infinity - you sound more frustrated than I am with the Institute about the changes! And had never really thought about the fact they are essentially forcing you to spend 250 hours minimum now rather than 125-150 hours for a CT for example.. Not considerate for people with lives at all.

Yes, CT5 would be my priority if I don't pass.. As I definitely felt I over prepared for the April exams I'm really hoping it's done now though!

Think I've decided on CT8 - might order materials today out my own pocket - joys! Might be moving job soon so hopefully they'll have a better support system for me but week off in August sounds good either way!

thanks @Net Premium for your responses too!

 

[Infinity]

Thank you @Infinity - you sound more frustrated than I am with the Institute about the changes! And had never really thought about the fact they are essentially forcing you to spend 250 hours minimum now rather than 125-150 hours for a CT for example.. Not considerate for people with lives at all.

Yes, CT5 would be my priority if I don't pass.. As I definitely felt I over prepared for the April exams I'm really hoping it's done now though!

Think I've decided on CT8 - might order materials today out my own pocket - joys! Might be moving job soon so hopefully they'll have a better support system for me but week off in August sounds good either way!

thanks @Net Premium for your responses too!

So you don’t get study support from your employer? You have to study on your own time and have a full time job... sounds rather inhumane to me.

It is really bugging me that net premium has decided to stick up for the IFoA and has uncovered another instance of the IFoA doctoring published content again.

Did they inform us that they changed their minds on whether the two supposedly separate exams of the same subject had to be sat together in the same sitting? They’ve only revealed this one sitting away from the implementation of the new curriculum. So the fact that they’ve provided four sittings notice is complete rubbish. So netpremium its not just about changing their mind, this is deceitful behavior and it is not ethical.

So what else are you frustrated about? Please do tell. Am interested to know.

If you’re frustrated why don’t you take some action?

Why is no one doing anything?

 

[KMER94]

So you don’t get study support from your employer? You have to study on your own time and have a full time job... sounds rather inhumane to me.

It is really bugging me that net premium has decided to stick up for the IFoA and has uncovered another instance of the IFoA doctoring published content again.

Did they inform us that they changed their minds on whether the two supposedly separate exams of the same subject had to be sat together in the same sitting? They’ve only revealed this one sitting away from the implementation of the new curriculum. So the fact that they’ve provided four sittings notice is complete rubbish. So netpremium its not just about changing their mind, this is deceitful behavior and it is not ethical.

So what else are you frustrated about? Please do tell. Am interested to know.

If you’re frustrated why don’t you take some action?

Why is no one doing anything?

I kind of get support, or was getting support.. My employer does things a weird way in that we have a "study bank" of days & money and if you pass exams you get more money/days into your account and if you fail you keep chipping away and when you get to 0 you're on your own essentially. It's quite backwards because the lower the amount gets the more you want to pass an exam but you can't spend money on more materials because you don't have enough etc. It's annoying. I am at the stage where I've had plenty of fails (due to limited support in terms of helping me pass when my employer has seen me failing, mental health difficulties and general life stuff). But the study policy amounts are outdated (like prices not really updated since 2009-2011) and it's only me in my whole firm doing anything about it because no one seems to care enough to notice.. So that's fun! I am looking to move soon but my options are limited I think due to not having many exam passes.

In terms of the Curriculum 2019.. Yes it does seem like they've been changing their mind a lot and I have found them very cagey about releasing information about the 2019 exams. I have absolutely no experience with R or any programming language, and would have liked to start thinking about R maybe a year ago to make sure I can get my head around stuff but obviously they've not released any information about how it will be used so there's no point in me trying to learn everything just to use small amounts in the new exams. I also remember that they were saying you would have the ability to pass the written paper & practical paper separately which they've now back tracked on which is concerning when the current practical exams (eg CA2 which I've had the experience of sitting) is a shambles in the way they conduct those exams that it adds extra stress to exams that are already so time pressured.

I have found the whole move to curriculum 2019 very stressful as I have had to now do the same sitting in September 2017 as I did in April 2018 because, well I personally find exam periods to be hell on earth at the best of times, in the September 2017 sitting I had a lovely extra layer of pressure on me of "you need to pass CT5 or you're going to lose CT1" which basically had me at a stand still in panic when trying to study.

I would take action if I knew how. Do you want to message me about what you are currently doing?

I think no one is doing anything because they don't know how and we are lowly students and they are big actuary types who run the shop and if we step on their toes then maybe it will ruin their own prospects?? Idk.

 

[Infinity]

I’m suffering the same problems. Why don’t you give me a call? I’ve sent you my number as a private message. I can advise you of the various options open to you.

It’s funny you think the IFoA have not communicated the c2019 effectively and it’s obvious you are impacted. It’s not just you. There are over 7,000 students impacted. Where are the rest of you???

PLEASE COME FORWARD!!!

For the benefit of others - below are the options open to you

Complaint to IFoA - will mostly likely be robbed off
Putting things right - you’ll again be fobbed off
FRC - don’t have any power to do anything
Council - emails are intercepted and never get to the council
President - does not reply
Sir Kingman FRC review - seem to open to listen. Worthwhile sending your thoughts to them. There is a public call for information and although this is related to the FRC, it affects the IFoA too. Complain to the FRC first
Privy Council - regarding chartered actuary proposal
EHRC - for discrimination and victimization
Employment tribunal - again for discrimination and victimization
Civil proceedings - small claims court
Judicial Review - expensive but if we can get enough people together...
Police - since Mr Cribb has lied in an annual report (deceit)
ICAEW - since Mr Cribb has lied in an annual report (ethics/accountants code of conduct)

I’m sick of being spun lies by the IFoA.

You don’t need to worry about complaining. It is perfectly within your rights to do so if you feel you have been wronged.

 

[almost_there]

I think no one is doing anything because they don't know how and we are lowly students and they are big actuary types who run the shop and if we step on their toes then maybe it will ruin their own prospects?? Idk.

The concern you raise is understandable until one learns of protected acts. Doing anything in conjunction with the Equality Act is known as a protected act. This means it's unlawful for someone to subject the person making the complaint to harassment (s.26 of Equality Act) or put them at a detriment because of it i.e. victimisation (s.27 of Equality Act).