• We are pleased to announce that the winner of our Feedback Prize Draw for the Winter 2024-25 session and winning £150 of gift vouchers is Zhao Liang Tay. Congratulations to Zhao Liang. If you fancy winning £150 worth of gift vouchers (from a major UK store) for the Summer 2025 exam sitting for just a few minutes of your time throughout the session, please see our website at https://www.acted.co.uk/further-info.html?pat=feedback#feedback-prize for more information on how you can make sure your name is included in the draw at the end of the session.
  • Please be advised that the SP1, SP5 and SP7 X1 deadline is the 14th July and not the 17th June as first stated. Please accept out apologies for any confusion caused.

Recruitment agencies

C

CA2 student

Member
Hi

What do you guys think of recruitment agencies? I'm part qualified and not sure whether it's best to use them or go it alone. Does your employer recruit candidates directly or do they only take people from agencies?

When I was a graduate I found the actuarial agencies were fairly useless and they didn't even get me any interviews, but I'm not sure if the situation is different now I have experience. Once part qualified, did you get your job by applying directly to companies or using an agency? I assume using an agency might be easier?

Thanks for any help :)
 
There is no universal right answer.

If you see a direct advert (eg in Yellow Pages, or possibly on each individual co. website), then I think doing it yourself proves you are keen on the job/co. Too many recruiters scatter gun CVs everywhere!

But other cos will use only agencies, and worse still, some don't use all agencies but retain services solely of 2 tops.

S it depends how choosy you are about your move.

Good luck. (PS I've done it by both methods so either can work)
 
Does anyone else get annoyed at how many recruiter phonecalls they get at work?
 
Yes - I just tell them that I have only been in my current job for a few months and so am not looking to move; only the most unscrupulous one try to push it any further after that!
 
OneLastTheorem said:
Does anyone else get annoyed at how many recruiter phonecalls they get at work?
Click to expand...


Not at all. If they call up while my manager is listening it can only help me achieve a bigger pay rise ... providing they want to retain me which I think they do.
 
Dukerio said:
We can't live with them and we can't live without them!
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure if all recruitment consultants disappeared off the face of the earth we'd somehow struggle on...
 
I have yet to find a recruitment agency that is interested in what is best for me. In fact, their awareness of my needs vs their client's needs is generally very poor. I have lost count of the number of agents who have found me the 'perfect' job, only to find that the agent didn't actually know what the job was in the first place. It may be harsh, but I think most agents will do almost anything to get you into an interview, because then they are at least in with a chance of picking up the fee. For these guys it's a percentage game. In particular I find it hard to respect those who cold call me at work who don't even have the first idea of who I am except my details in the actuarial directory. All very depressing.
 
ExamFatigued said:
It may be harsh, but I think most agents will do almost anything to get you into an interview, because then they are at least in with a chance of picking up the fee. For these guys it's a percentage game. InQUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. Remember - these cold callers only need to place 4 or 5 people in a year to earn your salary! It is best to get rid of them quickly and only deal with the more established agencies that you find in the back of the Actuary magazine.
Click to expand...
 
I have been told the test of a good recruitment agent is how much they know about you... because with a little bit of research they should at least know some basic details... like which department you work in!

So the next time some agent calls you up and starts asking you lots of questions... ask THEM what they know about you...

... and if you know it's just going to be a waste of time, put down the phone. Simple as.
 
ExamFatigued said:
I have yet to find a recruitment agency that is interested in what is best for me. In fact, their awareness of my needs vs their client's needs is generally very poor. I have lost count of the number of agents who have found me the 'perfect' job, only to find that the agent didn't actually know what the job was in the first place. It may be harsh, but I think most agents will do almost anything to get you into an interview, because then they are at least in with a chance of picking up the fee. For these guys it's a percentage game. In particular I find it hard to respect those who cold call me at work who don't even have the first idea of who I am except my details in the actuarial directory. All very depressing.
Click to expand...

This is the reason why there are lots of resentments toward the recruitment agency. The agency will be paid by the company that's doing the hiring yet the agent does not know much about the job and the company. It just wastes everyone's time.

I do not expect the agent to know much about me. There are simply too many actuaries around and I think you have to accept this.

Do not expect much from the agents regarding what your needs are - remember - they are working for themselves (and the company doing the hiring to a lesser extent)!
 
I have always been a little surprised when I've been approached by recruitment agencies. I've never had a job with an actuarial company, never expressed any interest in getting an actuarial job, never given any of my details to anyone (except FoA and Acted) and never even put a CV together
 
Fiasco said:
I do not expect the agent to know much about me. There are simply too many actuaries around and I think you have to accept this.
Click to expand...

Surely they should still know some basic facts - think of the info that's stored on the actuarial directory, plus the info they can get on the actual company you work for... plus there are ways to find out which department exactly somebody works for...

Fiasco said:
Do not expect much from the agents regarding what your needs are - remember - they are working for themselves (and the company doing the hiring to a lesser extent)!
Click to expand...

They are also working for you... although I accept there are a lot of "bad" recruiters out there...

In a way it's like retail - you could offer lots of great deals which people will snap up in the short term, but your crap product quality and rubbish service screws people over in the long run, or you could offer top quality goods and top quality service and benefit from repeat customers and a good reputation.

Similarly with agents, they could go for the short term gains by throwing as many jobs as possible at people and forcing them to take one up just so you get lots of money, however in the long term they are likely to get a bad reputation (as this forum's discussions prove!) and no one will want to use them again. I guess the key to finding a good agent is finding someone who can see the "bigger picture" and are interested in finding you the perfect job so that in the long run they will get "repeat business" and their (and your) reputation remains intact.

Obviously it doesn't help that are many agents out there who are only interested in the short term gains...
 
Cardano said:
I have always been a little surprised when I've been approached by recruitment agencies. I've never had a job with an actuarial company, never expressed any interest in getting an actuarial job, never given any of my details to anyone (except FoA and Acted) and never even put a CV together
Click to expand...

They get your details from the Actuarial directory; all they need is a company name, and then they can just phone the general company number and ask to be put through to you. The cold callers simply just work their way through the list of names in the directory. The only way to avoid it is not to have the company you work for listed.

I do wonder how they get a copy of the directory in the first place? I don't think it is a publicly available document; perhaps they get 'insider' help?!
 
4EverStudent said:
They get your details from the Actuarial directory; all they need is a company name, and then they can just phone the general company number and ask to be put through to you. The cold callers simply just work their way through the list of names in the directory. The only way to avoid it is not to have the company you work for listed.

I do wonder how they get a copy of the directory in the first place? I don't think it is a publicly available document; perhaps they get 'insider' help?!
Click to expand...

Some of these recruitment people are ex-industry and are still registered with the Institute or Faculty.
 
Lots of different ways for a recruitment agency to have your details or to know about you

1. You've given them to them. I.e. if you've ever applied for any of those attractive jobs in the Actuary and you had to go through them. They know about you for ever and will never let go. Ditto if you've ever made the mistake of giving one your CV because you were desperate for a move and wanted to know what they had on.

2. Someone else who knows you has told them you might be a potential target. It works like this. You are dealing with an agency and they fix you up OK (it does happen!). They then ask you if there is anyone else you know who might potentially be looking for a move. Or, when you are having one of those getting-to-know-you face-to-face talks, you might be asked to talk through the current structure where you are, current personel etc. etc. It's very easy to disclose someone's name without really realising you've done it.

3. Any form of cold-calling. If you relent and disclose any details or in any way or form sound friendly and willing, then you are on the hook - for ever.

Other major beefs is that they can be rubbish at salary negotiations, butcher your carefully constructed CV into their own format (cut and paste job) - or worse still constuct your profile based on what you have talked to them about, and then send it to all the prospective employers within a 50 mile radius without you seeing it first - pretty much blowing any chance of an interview, plus sending you for job interviews that are totally unsuitable or for positions that don't even exist.

Of course, I have been around a bit and I've probably not helped my own cause a few times, and I may just have been really unlucky, but I can't help having a downer on these bottom-feeders.
 
Hadn't realised I'd kick-off this level of anger! ;)

Dukerio said:
Thats a bit harsh, don't you think
Click to expand...

Think you took me the wrong way Dukerio - I was actually just being pedantic. Was just saying we could certainly live without them rather than there are no good agents.

I've definitely had my share of bad recruiters...

"recruiter: Hi there 1234, now I don't normally cold-call people but you've come highly recommended as being an exceptional L&H actuary.
1234: I work in P&C
<short pause>
recruiter: well I also some very interesting P&C positions I'd like to discuss with you...
<click>"

That being said I've also met a couple of really good agents who are happy to give advice without pushing and genuinely seem in it for the long haul. One even recently advised me to stay with my current employer as the experience I'd get over the next year would be worth more than the pay rise I could get by moving - which definitely isn't in his short-term interests!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top