Exam marking problems

[StudentActuary_02]

I was drafting the email and I know that it won't get me anywhere, I can foresee what they are going to reply me with.

Let them reply with whatever they want, ultimately you are just working through their fob-off complaints process, and they will never find in your favour at any stage. Accepting that does not however mean that you have to accept unfair treatment, but don't let their words discourage you.

The point is once you get to the final stage and get fobbed off again by the IFoA one last time, you can then take your complaint elsewhere to an independent party and actually get fair treatment. SUddently you will then find that their answer changes.

I have gone through the exact same process with a complaint with a utility company. Three comp[laint stages(includign CEO's fofice) all refused to uphold complaint, went to am ombudsman and suddenly they upheld the complaint in full without any question. This is simply how big organisations work because they know 95% of people won't escalate a complaint past the first complaint stage. The only way to be treated fairly by the IFoA is to be in that 5%, and it doesn't need much time nor effort.

The key thing is to stick to your guns, not to repeat your entire complaint again at each stage, and to remember that the IFoA are just the other party in a dispute. They aren't independent and have a vested interest in rejecting your compliant, so don't be put off when they do reject you.

Instead, remember why you raised a complaint in the first place, and simply escalate it to the next stage and get past the IFoA's complaint process as quickly as possible.

 

[StudentActuary_02]

I chased this up a week ago now after waiting 4 weeks for a reply.

Unsurprisingly I have not had a reply to either my initial email or my second email. I'd be happy to get together with other students experiencing the same lack of transparency/processes not being followed to try and get a change in the institute.

Sadly though I don't believe that one student against the institute will ever get anywhere and as we're all in the same boat of juggling exams with work I'm sure none of us have the time to pursue this alone.

Hi Sarah - this is terrible treatment by the IFoA to simply ignore your complaint entirely! What utterly disrespectful behaviour from a professional body.

Let's make sure that you are clearly the reasonable party in your complaint, and the IFoA look ridiculous (which they do at the moment).

I would suggest going back to the IFoA and give them 5 working days to provide their full response to this Stage 1 complaint, otherwise the IFoA will be deemed as not having answered your complaint at all. You can then skip the rest of their complaints process entirely, and it will look very bad for the IFoA if they breached their own complaints process by ignoring you.

If you receive a response, then escalate to Stage 2 of their internal complaints procedure and give them only as much time as it reasonable to reply to that (check their policy that you should have eben provided with by now, but I think they ask for 15 working days, which is the most I would give them really), otherwise you will escalate again.

Either way, once you're out of the IFoA's complaint procedure, this is when you will actually start to receive fair treatment and a fair hearing of your case by an independent party.

If you need help on what independent action you can take once you have exhausted the IFoA complaint procedure then let us know (hint: you have lots of options!)

 

[almost_there]

Give them 10 working days and if they fail to clear up the confusion, report them to the ICO. You weill find that once the ICO get involved the IFoA will jump to attention and do what you ask!

In my experience the more complaints the ICO get about a particular organisation then the more keen they become. This is why it's important for people to log complaints at these various places, even if you feel fobbed off initially, as otherwise there's no evidence of a problem.

 

[Luckcounts]

Hi All,

Well I am a bit sceptical about this. But are we doing anything about our issues.

Can we help ourselves by combining hands and really making a change?

I have received ST4, SAR last month, you may not be surprised to know;

Examiner 1 awarded 74 marks

Examiner 2 awarded 50.5 marks

Staggering 46.5% difference.

Surprisingly the third examiner which I am told is the most “experienced” examiner awarded exact average in each question and awarded me 61, just 0.75 marks below the average of first two, what a coincidence.

Since the last examiner was the most “experienced” examiner so my final marks were 61. This accidently happened to be the average of first two.

By awarding examiner 3 marks does IFOA imply both examiner 1 and examiners 2 were wrong?

If so what about other scripts they marked?

Where is quality of marking?

All the examiner were more than 10 marks apart from each other.

Script was not marked fourth time.

I raised it with IFOA, and was rejected at appeal stage 2.

My points are;

If all the examiner are following a marking schedule, is it possible the first two disagree by 24 marks, i.e. almost 46.5% lower marks by examiner 2.

The third examiner does not match to either of them. In ST4 each correct point is 0.5 marks so third examiner marking implies each examiner 1 and 2 is making at least 22 errors in their marking.

If so GOD bless IFOA, with such a high variance in marking.

No comparison between examiner 1 and 2 as they are staggering 46.5% apart.

In IFOA exam we are relying on luck who mark our exam script first and second. For example if examiner 1 and 3 had marked my script in any order I would have passed.

If examiner 2 would have given me 3 extra marks (i.e. 54 mark) I would have passed.

I do not believe the marking is fair, as none of the examiner match other.

I do not believe they follow any marking schedule, if so they cannot be 46% and 22% different.

I do not believe IFOA has any robust marking system in place.

Can we do something about it?

They will not honour any mistake they have made.

Can I take the matter anywhere further?

I believe there is a need for fairer and better marking system, i.e. in exceptional circumstances we should be given access to our marked scripts.

I have all the proof/documents if anyone is interested get in touch.

Any guidance help, will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[almost_there]

Examiner 1 awarded 74 marks

Examiner 2 awarded 50.5 marks

Staggering 46.5% difference.

That's completely unacceptable. Not even close! We can't all go on like this! Where's the accountability? One marker gave you a very comfortable pass and the other a very comfortable fail! It's frightening to think how much of this might have gone on over the years, especially in the times before students could obtain this information - thanks only to the Data Protection Act!

 

[Geraldine]

Examiner 1 awarded 74 marks

Examiner 2 awarded 50.5 marks

Staggering 46.5% difference.

Just wow! And I thought I had it fairly bad. The IFOA confirmed that the third marker only looked at two questions of mine where there was considerable difference (given that one marker passed me with 68.5 - pass mark being 67 - and the other failed me with an "FB" of 60).

So now I've asked them for a response as to why only two questions are marked where there's a considerable overall difference such that the accumulation of lost marks can sway a result - there's something to be said for a marker who consistently under / over - scores you. Whatever the result, they'll end up introducing some sort of bias. It's the responsibility of the profession to fully investigate this sort of thing rather than predictably just award us something suspiciously close to the average mark.

I feel like I may have been let down by the one marker - and now await a response. I've also asked that this be discussed at the next SCF - it's outrageous that given the money we spend on exams, they appear to treat our marking rather flippantly. We've paid them a lot - they need to mark us properly, fairly, robustly and with transparency. Is there anything wrong with that?

 

[Lapsed_Student]

I chased this up a week ago now after waiting 4 weeks for a reply.

Unsurprisingly I have not had a reply to either my initial email or my second email. I'd be happy to get together with other students experiencing the same lack of transparency/processes not being followed to try and get a change in the institute.

Sadly though I don't believe that one student against the institute will ever get anywhere and as we're all in the same boat of juggling exams with work I'm sure none of us have the time to pursue this alone.

Sadly, Sarah, I believe you are right that no single student will get anywhere, ultimately, with the Institute on their own (but I'd still recommend students follow the steps outlined by @StudentActuary_02 @almost_there and others in this thread). I think that real significant change in the system will only happen if students bandy together and become actively involved in greater collective action and take steps to fight for greater transparency in the system.

Such steps could involve organised nationwide strikes by students across the UK, Ireland & any others with students sitting the IFoA exams. The idea of student actuaries striking may seem far-fetched now, but hey, Brexit happened, Trump happened. Expectations of what is normal - out the window. And sure, junior doctors do it.

And as for individual small claims, perhaps through this new collective action, it would be possible to build up a case for a collective action lawsuit, if it were shown that discrepancies in exam system affected a significant number of students.

These things of course wouldn't happen in the immediate future, but once support, awareness and empirical evidence grows over time.

 

[almost_there]

So whatever mark you get nowadays... if you get 60 that could be marker 1 - marker 2 61-59, 65-55, 70-50, 75-45... totally unacceptable!

 

[Luckcounts]

Sadly, Sarah, I believe you are right that no single student will get anywhere, ultimately, with the Institute on their own (but I'd still recommend students follow the steps outlined by @StudentActuary_02 @almost_there and others in this thread). I think that real significant change in the system will only happen if students bandy together and become actively involved in greater collective action and take steps to fight for greater transparency in the system.

Such steps could involve organised nationwide strikes by students across the UK, Ireland & any others with students sitting the IFoA exams. The idea of student actuaries striking may seem far-fetched now, but hey, Brexit happened, Trump happened. Expectations of what is normal - out the window. And sure, junior doctors do it.

And as for individual small claims, perhaps through this new collective action, it would be possible to build up a case for a collective action lawsuit, if it were shown that discrepancies in exam system affected a significant number of students.

These things of course wouldn't happen in the immediate future, but once support, awareness and empirical evidence grows over time.

Hi
This is what I am proposing, clearly there are flaws in the marking system, IFOA is not willing to do anything.
Are we?
We need to take some initiative, for greater transparency, even if this means a legal battle.

Are we willing to do this?

What's the way forward?
Or are we waiting this to go on for ever.......

 

[Luckcounts]

That's completely unacceptable. Not even close! We can't all go on like this! Where's the accountability? One marker gave you a very comfortable pass and the other a very comfortable fail! It's frightening to think how much of this might have gone on over the years, especially in the times before students could obtain this information - thanks only to the Data Protection Act!

I have had email exchanged from secretary level up to director in last two months.
No one in IFOA is willing to accept their fault, most of their replies do not make sense, in conclusion they say "Shut Up" we are the authority, can do whatever we like
I had a feeling this is happening for long.... but have proof for the 1st time as you said thanks to Data protection act
But the question is what can we do?
IFOA will never accept their fault....and we do not have the power....
Will we just cry on this forum........

 

[almost_there]

There's already been quite enough crying on this forum! Every individual can make the data request and follow the IFoA complaints process to its conclusion. (Student_actuary02 is an expert on how to navigate this process efficiently- ask him about it you'll save loads of time and be reassured you're not doing anything 'wrong'.) The next step would be to notify the FRC, who are unlikely to do anything about it but it's important to register dissatisfaction with them. What's left? I can only think small claims court to demand an exam fee refund (at least). I realise that's an unappealing option for some but at least you are not on their home ground and a third party adjudicates on the matter.

 

[Luckcounts]

Much Appreciated
But I think we should take it to a proper legal process....but only if all of us combine together

 

[Luckcounts]

I have asked for further help from the suggested person.
Very many thanks

 

[almost_there]

I suggest that affected students could contact the Citizens Advice Bureau or any legal helpline they may already have with their home insurance etc. to find out how a collective action could be done. It can't be done through the moneyonline system, as that's for an individual. It would have to be manual.

 

[Tarbuck]

Judge Rinder?

 

[Luckcounts]

The appeal system is flawed, you only have 15 days to appeal, but they have 40 days to provide you with results of your SAR. It is clearly unfair. I would not appeal, as they will only just take £200 from you, and provide you with a 1 paragraph answer saying that your appeal has been rejected.[/QUOTE]

I was told by IFOA, they cannot give me SAR within appeal 15 days deadline, and if I want to appeal I should do this in 15 days. So I did and as expected appeal was rejected. Meanwhile my SAR came through with marker 1 74 marker 2 50.5 and I added this at stage 2 again rejected.
This is just waste of £200......

 

[almost_there]

why do these SAR's take them by surprise... it's the same thing people are asking for, they know when the demand will be high i.e. straight after exam results, this information is surely just on a spreadsheet or two... no excuse for taking more than 15 days to provide something like this!

 

[almost_there]

marker 1 74 marker 2 50.5 and I added this at stage 2 again rejected.
This is just waste of £200......

On what planet are these people on when they pocket £200 and write to you rejecting your appeal when there's such discrepancy in their marking here?!!

 

[almost_there]

Luckcounts, of all the examples here I think yours is the one that I'm nominating to be asked as question #1 at the next student consultative forum. In fact I think they should just ask this one question and discuss it all for the entire meeting.

 

[Luckcounts]

Luckcounts, of all the examples here I think yours is the one that I'm nominating to be asked as question #1 at the next student consultative forum. In fact I think they should just ask this one question and discuss it all for the entire meeting.

If you want some proof I can pass it over to you inbox me your email please

 

[almost_there]

Hey Luckcounts, so you had 74, 50.5 & 61.5 from the three markers. I make that an average of 62. Adopted mark of 59.8 !!!!